Jump to content
IGNORED

Is This Legal - Marking Ball with Toe of Putter?

ChetlovesMer

By ChetlovesMer,
in Rules of Golf

 Share

Recommended Posts

ncates00 Great Member

ncates00

10 minutes ago, denkea said:

USGA RULES OF GOLF
Play in all PGA TOUR cosponsored, approved or coordinated tournaments shall be con- ducted in accordance with the USGA Rules of Golf, as modified by PGA TOUR. A copy of such modifications, including Local Rules and Conditions of Competition for PGA TOUR, and a Notice to Competitors (Players), which shall describe any special Local Rules and Conditions, will be made available to players prior to their starting times.

 

Players Handbook and Tournament Regulations that you looked at doesn't include specific rules.  You would need to have access to "Special Local Rules and Conditions of Competition".

I made the statement which I know to be true.  Believe me or not.  If you don't, prove it to be false.  

How does this prove what you said?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1

  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

Double Mocha Man
Double Mocha Man

I do this all the time and sometimes get funny looks.  Never looked it up to see if it was legal... just knew that it was an easy way of precisely marking your ball without fishing through a pocket fo

ChetlovesMer
ChetlovesMer

Oh sure, Dave. That's true. In this case it's not a problem, per say. As I've played with this guy literally for years. I never really thought about it much. For some reason it jumped into my hea

DaveP043
DaveP043

No problem.  You might think about getting the USGA Rules app for your phone, its actually a lot easier to use than the old Rulebook.  In addition, all of the Interpretations (used to be Decisions) ar

Posted Images

  • Administrator
iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

  • Administrator
10 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

How does this prove what you said?

It doesn’t. It’s him saying “I’ve seen a document you haven’t seen.”

Except that a few of us here have seen the document he’s citing.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Rulesman Great Member

Rulesman

(edited)
1 hour ago, denkea said:

USGA RULES OF GOLF
Play in all PGA TOUR cosponsored, approved or coordinated tournaments shall be con- ducted in accordance with the USGA Rules of Golf, as modified by PGA TOUR. A copy of such modifications, including Local Rules and Conditions of Competition for PGA TOUR, and a Notice to Competitors (Players), which shall describe any special Local Rules and Conditions, will be made available to players prior to their starting times.

 

Players Handbook and Tournament Regulations that you looked at doesn't include specific rules.  You would need to have access to "Special Local Rules and Conditions of Competition".

I made the statement which I know to be true.  Believe me or not.  If you don't, prove it to be false.  

Under the Rules of Golf, which the PGA Tour specifically say they follow, they are not permitted to make any modifications that are not authorised by the USGA/R&A. The only modifications are those specified in the Committee Procedures section of the Rules of Golf. The prohibition on using clubhead is not one of them.

Incidentally, I have copies of the PGA Tour Hard Card with the Conditions of Competition and Local Rules going back to 2008. The is no mention of the subject on any of them. Do you have document saying they are prohibited?

Edited by Rulesman
  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Slim_Pivot Great Member

Slim_Pivot

My dad used to have me play in his work league 10+ years ago. There was a guy in that league who was pretty good, but was the worst cheater I’ve ever seen; he always marked his ball like that (and would end up closer to the hole).

I wouldn’t be caught dead doing it, but I have a biased opinion cuz of that guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1

  • Administrator
iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

  • Administrator

Looks like it's time to put up or shut up, @denkea.

I can't say definitively that I've not seen them on the hard cards, Local Rules, CoCs, etc. that I've seen over the years, but @Rulesman almost certainly can look at a copy right now, and I will take his word over yours at this point given you've produced nothing, and I know of @Rulesman's credentials.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

fredf Well Established Member

fredf

Agree with the general view, assertions without evidence don't cut it. And there is no evidence yet demonstrated that the PGA of America has over-ridden the Rules on this issue.

As an aside, I can't find a PGA of America hard card, is one accessible online?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

  • Administrator
43 minutes ago, fredf said:

Agree with the general view, assertions without evidence don't cut it. And there is no evidence yet demonstrated that the PGA of America has over-ridden the Rules on this issue.

As an aside, I can't find a PGA of America hard card, is one accessible online?  

You mean the PGA Tour. The PGA of America has not done anything with this rule. I've got hard cards and CoCs and so on from all levels of PGA of America championships.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Asheville Great Member

Asheville

11 hours ago, denkea said:

USGA RULES OF GOLF
Play in all PGA TOUR cosponsored, approved or coordinated tournaments shall be con- ducted in accordance with the USGA Rules of Golf, as modified by PGA TOUR. A copy of such modifications, including Local Rules and Conditions of Competition for PGA TOUR, and a Notice to Competitors (Players), which shall describe any special Local Rules and Conditions, will be made available to players prior to their starting times.

 

Players Handbook and Tournament Regulations that you looked at doesn't include specific rules.  You would need to have access to "Special Local Rules and Conditions of Competition".

I made the statement which I know to be true.  Believe me or not.  If you don't, prove it to be false.  

Your appeal to ignorance is a sophomoric tactic. It's up to you, pal, to provide evidence for your assertion. Until then, the jury says you're full of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

fredf Well Established Member

fredf

5 hours ago, iacas said:

You mean the PGA Tour. The PGA of America has not done anything with this rule. I've got hard cards and CoCs and so on from all levels of PGA of America championships.

Okay, thanks. Is there a single PGA Tour hard card and is it accessible online?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Asheville Great Member

Asheville

The PGA Tour Player Handbook & Tournament Regulations 2019-2020 provides this on page 133:


"Play in all PGA TOUR cosponsored, approved or coordinated tournaments shall be conducted in accordance with the USGA Rules of Golf, as modified by PGA TOUR. A copy of such modifications, including Local Rules and Conditions of Competition for PGA TOUR, and a Notice to Competitors (Players), which shall describe any special Local Rules and Conditions, will be made available to players prior to their starting times."

https://qualifying.pgatourhq.com/static-assets/uploads/2019-2020-pga-tour-handbook--regs-09_10_19.pdf

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
DaveP043 Incredible Member

DaveP043

  • Moderator
21 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Under the Rules of Golf, which the PGA Tour specifically say they follow, they are not permitted to make any modifications that are not authorised by the USGA/R&A. The only modifications are those specified in the Committee Procedures section of the Rules of Golf. The prohibition on using clubhead is not one of them.

This is what I was thinking of earlier in the thread.  To bar the use of a putter head to mark the ball, the Committee would have to institute a penalty for something that is specifically allowed under the rules, which is an action that the Committee is not allowed to take under the Rules of Golf.  This same basic discussion came up early in the year, when some people suggested that the PGA Tour wouldn't allow players to putt with the flagstick in the hole.  Again, that's something that the Committee may not do under the Rules.  The following is from Section 8L in Committee Procedures:

Quote

The Committee must not impose penalties when the Rules do not impose them

Under the old Rules, if I remember correctly, if the player accidentally moves his ball or his marker, other than in the process of marking, he was penalized.  I have to believe that this would apply if the putterhead moved while the player was cleaning his ball, or if the putter itself fell.  Nobody on the Tour would want to take that risk, its so much safer to mark the ball in the normal manner.  So while it may have been permissible to use the putterhead, it was a bad idea.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Rulesman Great Member

Rulesman

It seems that the current PGA Tour hardcard is on their website but is only available to members who have registered.

My copies are in the form of locked PDFs so I can't post any extracts.

6 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

So, just so I understand. 
It looks like the toe of the putter thing is totally cool... ???

Even in PGA events, right? Unless we can find proof to the contrary... 

 

A few years ago the PGA Tour promised the USGA they would no longer introduce any local rules or conditions of competition that were not authorised by the USGA/R&A. To date, they have not broken their word

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Beastie Dedicated Member

Beastie

In casual games I’ll mark with the putter, or a tee, coin or marker but in medal play or anytime the score actually matters I use a coin or marker. I expect most pros would feel using the putter as a marker in a PGA event would be a little casual, almost unprofessional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1

pganapathy Great Member

pganapathy

On 10/21/2019 at 10:06 PM, billchao said:

 

@saevel25 beat me to it, but yes it's legal.

Legal yes, provided the club doesn't move.  If it does, then the place you replace the ball in is wrong.  I suppose technically you can't replace the ball exactly where it was (it will generally at least be one mm away), but the advantage of using a marker is nobody will ask the types of questions that OP did.  It is a lot easier to move the club a little bit, and hence place the ball in a wrong position, than if you use a marker

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Zeph Incredible Member

Zeph

There's no penalty for accidentally moving the marker as long as it is replaced. I don't see why a moved marker is easier to replace than a club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up

  • Support TST Affiliates

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    Whoop
    SuperSpeed
    FlightScope Mevo
    Use the code "iacas" for 10% off Mevo and the code "iacasjun21" for 10% off SuperSpeed.

  • Posts

    • Colins69
      2021 (2020) Ryder Cup

      By Colins69 ·

      Yeah sorry your right but my point was Jack didn’t make the course the reason he didn’t win, my memory is abit off after a month in a coma. I’m trying to setup a new laptop and it’s not happening, I’ve had to admit defeat and get some help. My bad…
    • Colins69
      2021 (2020) Ryder Cup

      By Colins69 ·

      Yeah yeah but hey it gets better lol    USA have won 3 of the past 12 !!!!!   25% when I went to school, but you’ve conveniently forgot about that. Europe let you win so you keep coming back lol…
    • Darkfrog
      My Swing (Darkfrog)

      By Darkfrog ·

      Lesson 9/25: Some bad things had crept into my swing, and I think I have the tools to fix them. Setup: I was setting up a little to close to the ball. Not sure what precipitated this, but as soon as instructor pointed it out, I stepped back maybe 1/2 to 1 ball and right away addressing the ball felt more comfortable. I've started fidgeting with my right hand grip at setup again, resulting in an overly strong right hand. This seems to happen when I stand over the ball too long, maybe because I am not committed to the swing. Worked on increasing grip pressure with this hand through backswing. I'll need to work on this. Backswing: Need to get a little more depth, but otherwise okay. Might have been I was focusing too much on downswing that I short changed backswing. Nothing major to work on right now. Downswing: Clubhead exit was too much up and out, and not enough left. Worked a bit with a PVC/pool noodle plane thing in front of the ball to get a feel for the clubhead exiting more around and left, and less up, after impact. Might pick up some PVC pipe, elbows, and a tee-fitting at a hardware store, or maybe order a Pure Plane Pro device for this. Everything in the downswing looked pretty good up until club delivery, where I was shoving/flipping my right hand pretty hard. Right before delivery, clubhead was in a good position, but I was still shoving/flipping it closed through impact. Tried out a feel/thought of holding the face open through impact. Initially instructor just had me try to hit the ball with an open face and hit a push-slice way right. Even though it felt like I was leaving the face wide open, the ball was not atrociously offline right. After a few balls of getting used to the concept, I backed off the feel a little bit and was hitting the ball pretty straight. It'll take some work to deprogram my right hand/arm for this one.
    • Typhoon92
      Titliest 913 D3 8.5 vs Callaway Diablo Octane 9.5

      By Typhoon92 ·

      You are correct, Titleist has really upped the distance on last years TS models and even more so on this years.  The older ones always carried the moniker of being for people who were concerned with shot shaping over distance.  Now a days if you want to sell a driver, distance seems to be the number one concern and it’s good to see Titleist jumping on the bandwagon because they make nice looking driver heads
    • KMP
      Favorite U.S. Links Course?

      By KMP ·

      My understanding of "links" is that many people have a different set of criteria. I guess I agree that Chambers Bay and The Kingsley Club are not true links courses. When I hear the term it brings a vision of natural seaside dunes, sandy soil, fast, firm with weather often in play, and options to play the "ground game". Chambers was created by necessity; there is no sea or Great Lake near Kingsley; but both courses offer the same style of play along with most of the other features, and are a blast to play every round.

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. 2Bad4u
    2. alleztom
    3. Donald Sutherland
      Donald Sutherland
      (75 years old)
    4. LBlack14
      LBlack14
      (56 years old)
    5. wadekilpatrick76
      wadekilpatrick76
      (45 years old)
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

  I accept
The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...