Phil Mickelson Skipping Phoenix to Play in Saudi Arabia

[David in FL]

Playing in this tournament no more endorses SA’s policies than playing in any other tournament necessarily endorses the products, services, or agenda of all its sponsors.

Haters gonna hate though.  

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Playing in this tournament no more endorses SA’s policies than playing in any other tournament necessarily endorses the products, services, or agenda of all its sponsors.

Nobody's said that.

But last I checked, HERO or RSM or Wachovia or whatever aren't the Saudi government.

If a bunch of players line up to play in the "KKK Classic sponsored by Westboro Baptist Church," you'd better believe there would be an uproar.

[Double Mocha Man]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

Nobody's said that.

But last I checked, HERO or RSM or Wachovia or whatever aren't the Saudi government.

If a bunch of players line up to play in the "KKK Classic sponsored by Westboro Baptist Church," you'd better believe there would be an uproar.

The Phil & Dustin thing is like Harold Varner III playing in the KKK Classic and saying I'm just playing for the money, I like to play golf, it's a job and let's leave politics out of this.  The politics are in your face and you can't ignore or excuse yourself from them, in this case.  If you play in the Saudi golf tournament you are defacto supporting the regime and the atrocities they've performed.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Double Mocha Man

[ncates00]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If you play in the Saudi golf tournament you are defacto supporting the regime and the atrocities they've performed.

This is where I disagree with @iacas and others.  It is not supporting the regime.  If Phil tweeted out a statement stating that he agrees with the regime or he made financial contributions to them, then I would be in line with you all calling Phil out.  Alas, Phil has not made any showing of support for them apart from taking money to play golf any more than any of us have for purchasing goods or services from companies that engage in misconduct.  

I guess we all support sexist agendas by watching/paying for tickets to attend the Masters tournament, right?

[Double Mocha Man]

If I drive the getaway car for the bank heist, am I no less guilty, even though I didn't slip the threatening note to the teller?

[boogielicious]

Just In 

Phil Mickelson Skipping the Players Championship to play the KKK Classic sponsored by Westboro Baptist Church!

They promised him eternal salvation and a hefty appearance fee. 

[ncates00]

5 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If I drive the getaway car for the bank heist, am I no less guilty, even though I didn't slip the threatening note to the teller?

That's not an applicable analogy, but nice try.  Aiding another in the course of a felony is a crime.  What Phil has done, unless the law has changed since I took Criminal Law in law school, is not a crime.  

Good try though!  

8 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If I drive the getaway car for the bank heist, am I no less guilty, even though I didn't slip the threatening note to the teller?

Make sure you don't watch the Masters either!

4 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Just In 

Phil Mickelson Skipping the Players Championship to play the KKK Classic sponsored by Westboro Baptist Church!

They promised him eternal salvation and a hefty appearance fee. 

Make sure you don't watch the Master either!

[Double Mocha Man]

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

That's not an applicable analogy, but nice try.  Aiding another in the course of a felony is a crime.  What Phil has done, unless the law has changed since I took Criminal Law in law school, is not a crime.  

Good try though!  

Make sure you don't watch the Masters either!

Make sure you don't watch the Master either!

It's a parallel.  If Phil has not watched the news, read a newspaper or ever heard of the Khashoggi murder and dismemberment then it is okay with me that he is politically ignorant and can play in the tournament, guilt free.

[David in FL]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

It's a parallel.  If Phil has not watched the news, read a newspaper or ever heard of the Khashoggi murder and dismemberment then it is okay with me that he is politically ignorant and can play in the tournament, guilt free.

Luckily for him, Tiger was completely ignorant of Nike’s human rights violations while he actively endorsed the company.

 

[Double Mocha Man]

12 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Make sure you don't watch the Masters either!

Make sure you don't watch the Master either!

I don't buy Nike equipment.  And if you can give me appropriate and honest reasons why I shouldn't watch the Masters I will refrain from watching.  And I will not support any of their sponsors.  I have nothing made by IBM, I don't use AT&T and I apologize for once owning a Mercedes-Benz.  

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

I guess we all support sexist agendas by watching/paying for tickets to attend the Masters tournament, right?

Dude… Augusta National is a private club, not a f***ing government that murders people. And not only that, but they've admitted women to their club despite not being required - legally or morally - to do so, and they've spearheaded having the women PLAY there with the ANWA. They've hosted the Drive, Chip, and Putt for years.

14 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Make sure you don't watch the Masters either!

Make sure you don't watch the Master either!

Good gosh you look silly with that.

[ncates00]

6 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I don't buy Nike equipment.  And if you can give me appropriate and honest reasons why I shouldn't watch the Masters I will refrain from watching.  And I will not support any of their sponsors.  I have nothing made by IBM, I don't use AT&T and I apologize for once owning a Mercedes-Benz.  

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

but they've admitted women to their club despite not being required - legally or morally - to do so, and they've spearheaded having the women PLAY there with the ANWA. They've hosted the Drive, Chip, and Putt for years.

Social brownie points jackpot!

I've already conceded that if Phil actually supported the regime, I'd agree with you; we just disagree as to what constitutes an endorsement/support.  You believe that merely playing golf is an endorsement.  That's ludicrous.  If so, you have set a crazy standard for all social causes.  It's unduly burdensome to keep up with absolutely everything going on in the world and to expect people to join your touted social causes and share the same views you do.  You start getting into this nitpicky hierarchy of social causes and who has been the most oppressed.  Under your standard, you better support em all or you are a hypocrite--plain and simple.  

You may like the feelings you get by feeling all "holier than thou" for your activism and social stances, but others just want to buy a phone, buy a pair of shoes, or get the only internet service provider that works in their area, or play in a golf tournament.  

 

[David in FL]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

Dude… Augusta National is a private club, not a f***ing government that murders people. And not only that, but they've admitted women to their club despite not being required - legally or morally - to do so, and they've spearheaded having the women PLAY there with the ANWA. They've hosted the Drive, Chip, and Putt for years.

Good gosh you look silly with that.

Not really.  We’re talking about the sponsor of a golf tournament.  That’s what may or may not be getting endorsed here.  The fact that one is a government and another isn’t, doesn’t matter.  Hell, you referenced the KKK as an example yourself.

Bottom line, while we obviously disagree, is that I don’t believe that by playing in a golf tournament one is necessarily endorsing the products, services, or policies of the sponsors.  No matter what type of organization they may be…

[Double Mocha Man]

3 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

I've already conceded that if Phil actually supported the regime, I'd agree with you; we just disagree as to what constitutes an endorsement/support. 

 

I respectfully disagree.  If Phil knows anything of the regime's misdeeds (a bit of a euphemism) then he is, in fact, supporting the Saudis, whether words fall out of his mouth or not.  There is one exclusion:  If he is in agreement with the journalist's murder.   

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

You believe that merely playing golf is an endorsement.

He's not "merely" playing golf. He's accepting an appearance fee, and skipping out on an event he's played since 1990 to do so.

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

That's ludicrous.

Yeah, the guy who has the opinion of about 90% of other people is the ludicrous one. Buddy… if anyone's position here is ludicrous, it's yours.

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

It's unduly burdensome to keep up with absolutely everything going on in the world and to expect people to join your touted social causes and share the same views you do.

Right, because Saudi Arabia is flying completely under the radar with their human rights violations, murders, etc. And even if Phil was completely unknowing, what's his excuse now? He knows.

7 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Not really.  We’re talking about the sponsor of a golf tournament.  That’s what may or may not be getting endorsed here.  The fact that one is a government and another isn’t, doesn’t matter.  Hell, you referenced the KKK as an example yourself.

. <------ The point

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

David --------> x

[Vinsk]

5 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

I've already conceded that if Phil actually supported the regime, I'd agree with you; we just disagree as to what constitutes an endorsement/support.  You believe that merely playing golf is an endorsement

I think it has to be considered that Phil was paid to come play. It’s not like he just said, ‘ I’d like to see SA this time of year..I’m gonna make a tee time and check it out.’ And if you ask yourself why Phil was paid, that is what constitutes supporting this regime whether directly or not.

[iacas]

Phil is being paid so he can provide good PR in this little stunt being perpetrated by the Saudi regime.

It's that simple.

And so are DJ, Brooks, Reed, Sergio, etc.

[Double Mocha Man]

8 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

...others just want to buy a phone, buy a pair of shoes, or get the only internet service provider that works in their area, or play in a golf tournament.  

 

If we don't vote with our dollars then corporations will never understand they did something wrong.