Phil Mickelson Skipping Phoenix to Play in Saudi Arabia

[Double Mocha Man]

16 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

 

 

 

Poor Ncates... you must feel like you're in a back alley gang fight, Jets vs. the Sharks.  You're the only Jet fending off a dozen Sharks.  This is a good discussion... helping everyone clarify their positions and philosophies.  Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to head out to the course to practice my putting.  I promise I'm not driving any contraband cars or gaming any offending equipment.

[dsc123]

1. Playing isn't an endorsement of SAs. 
2. Playing supports SA.

Both of those things can be true.

[David in FL]

16 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I think it has to be considered that Phil was paid to come play. It’s not like he just said, ‘ I’d like to see SA this time of year..I’m gonna make a tee time and check it out.’ And if you ask yourself why Phil was paid, that is what constitutes supporting this regime whether directly or not.

Irrelevant.  The European Tour allows for appearance fees.  The PGA Tour does not.  If it did, sponsors would do so, and players would certainly take advantage of the opportunities that were there.  

Tiger took money from, and actively endorsed Nike despite their multiple human rights violations.  Even I don’t believe that doing so meant that he also endorsed those particular practices.  

[ncates00]

18 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Poor Ncates... you must feel like you're in a back alley gang fight, Jets vs. the Sharks.  You're the only Jet fending off a dozen Sharks.  This is a good discussion... helping everyone clarify their positions and philosophies.  Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got to head out to the course to practice my putting.  I promise I'm not driving any contraband cars or gaming any offending equipment.

Haha.  I could still hang out with ya'll or tee it up with you.  I get along with people I don't agree with.  For the most part haha.

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Irrelevant.  The European Tour allows for appearance fees.  The PGA Tour does not.  If it did, sponsors would do so, and players would certainly take advantage of the opportunities that were there.

Right, because endorsing RSM is exactly like endorsing SA.

And re:Tiger you’d have been justified in bringing all that up back then.

[Vinsk]

49 minutes ago, David in FL said:

actively endorsed 

Where did I say Phil did this?

[iacas]

So, the counter-arguments boil down to two things:

• Phil has not literally verbally endorsed the Saudi Arabian regime.
• The hypothetical situation wherein companies like RSM, HERO, Waste Management, etc. offer appearance fees, followed by the statements that this would be just as bad (or something) as what Phil is doing now, which is — to be clear — NOT a hypothetical situation.

[ncates00]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Phil has not literally verbally endorsed the Saudi Arabian regime.

Or contributed financially or otherwise (except for playing and getting paid himself) to the regime.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, ncates00 said:

Or contributed financially or otherwise (except for playing and getting paid himself) to the regime.

Once again, by accepting the money, he's endorsing the PR stunt that is the whole freaking event. It's not just a tournament IN SA, it's a tournament organized BY the SA government as a PR move.

Pretty stupid hill to die on man. But you do you…

---

Since nobody's got anything new to add… this topic should be just about done. If you have nothing new to add, don't post.

I just hope someone asks Phil if he's going to bring his wife and daughters to Saudi Arabia when he goes to collect his blood money.

[billchao]

I think it's pretty clear where everyone stands on this topic and since neither side is changing each other's minds, I think we should stop arguing in circles.

[turtleback]

This doesn't bother me nearly as much as the way the NBA and Hollywood suck up to a country with a million Muslims in 're-education' camps.  By comparison this is chump change greed.

[boogielicious]

5 hours ago, turtleback said:

This doesn't bother me nearly as much as the way the NBA and Hollywood suck up to a country with a million Muslims in 're-education' camps.  By comparison this is chump change greed.

Let's avoid drifting this into a political discussion. Try to keep it to being golf specific.

[GolfLug]

Yes, nothing unconstitutional or illegal about being a tone-deaf selfish prick for sure. 

It's obvious he is quite comfortable in what he is doing but he has gotta know he has had classier moments. 

Matt Kuchar's gotta be smiling somewhere out there..

[TRUCKER]

On 12/2/2019 at 2:28 PM, mchepp said:

Sadly this probably won't even cover his wine bill.

 

He doesn't even bother with a glass for a $650 bottle of wine.

Is his head photo shopped here? 🤷‍♂️...Just asking.

[leftybutnotPM]

On 12/3/2019 at 6:21 AM, ncates00 said:

I have no problem with Phil or anyone going to work and getting paid. Unless he has said otherwise, Phil’s playing does not constitute an endorsement of those who sign the check. Phil is right to not worry about what naysayers can argue or claim to know about his financial situation. 

Good grief! Are you serious? Do you know that they crucify people in Saudi Arabia? Or stone women to death for adultery?

The whole reason that these despots want to attract people like Phil is to make uneducated people think that the regime is democratic, non-murderous, fair and progressive.

Anyone playing is 100% endorsing the people signing the check. This is why ethical entertainers and athletes refused to "play Sun City" in South Africa for years.

I don't care if someone is greedy or stupid, but I do care about athletes accepting money which essentially window dressing for awful governments.

[iacas]

If you don’t have something new to add…

[ncates00]

3 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Anyone playing is 100% endorsing the people signing the check. This is why ethical entertainers and athletes refused to "play Sun City" in South Africa for years.

Under ABA Model Rules of Professional Conduct § 1.2(b), an attorney can accept or decline to represent a person (who is not already a client) and that representation does not constitute an endorsement of the client's political, economic, social or moral views or activities.  Like an attorney doing a job for otherwise disliked clients, there is no endorsement despite receiving a check.  Otherwise, any time someone does something, they could be aligned with the other's views.  Especially in today's divided culture--we like to say "you're with us or against us."  There is some nuance here.  Phil is only playing golf and receiving a check, just like any other independent contractor.  Just like a gardener working for some millionaire insider trader--the guy just wants a check and the fact that Phil "doesn't need the money" is not proof positive that it is an endorsement unless he either financially contributes to the regime or otherwise expressly supports the regime.  

Edited December 6, 2019 by ncates00

[ncates00]

Now, as I have said man times previously, if Phil actually supports the regime (besides his playing and receiving a check), I'm right there with you who are against Phil.  That would be despicable and I will lose all respect for Phil.  However, is it reasonable to assume that Phil supports the regime?  Really?!  I mean, come on.  I don't know him personally, but think about it.  You just don't like who is handing him money.  I don't either, but if we stopped people from legally taking money from people we don't like, that would create a big burden to check on the political/social stances of all employers, service providers, and goods manufacturers at all times.  I'm all for voting with your dollar, but I'm also for letting people choose to delegate their vote through the political process by voting for representatives so they can just live their lives--that is after all, what a representative democracy is about (not going into politics here).