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Why Not "Lift, Rake, and Place"?


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On 1/10/2020 at 8:11 PM, phillyk said:

For our course, we do “enact” this for winter season because we are very limited in maintenance staff and don’t want to have to worry about raking bunkers every day. Especially since it rains almost every day. Easier to just have golfers rake and place. 

If they want to play by the official rules, don’t do it. Easy. 

Sort of off topic, but this is the tough part for golf courses. We want to save on labor costs when income is low but at the sacrifice of the official rules of golf. As a private course, you’d have to decide what is more important.

The course I play most often has this same policy. I think it makes sense. ... and cents. 

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Honestly, I don't care if courses run tournaments during the season with non-allowed USGA local rules as long as scores are not posted for handicap. 

This

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The USGA makes the rules of golf. "Lift, rake, and place" is not an authorized local rule. 

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41 minutes ago, reidsou said:

The USGA makes the rules of golf. "Lift, rake, and place" is not an authorized local rule. 

So what. 

Again, it's the off-season. USGA doesn't accept scores or runs tournaments during that time anyways. 

I don't get why you are so bent out of shape over this. Also, if you don't like it, then don't play in off-season tournaments/events. Easy. 

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1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

So what. 

Again, it's the off-season. USGA doesn't accept scores or runs tournaments during that time anyways. 

I don't get why you are so bent out of shape over this. Also, if you don't like it, then don't play in off-season tournaments/events. Easy. 

Just stating my opinion as a member of the committee running our club's competitions, including in the "off season". (They're not *run* by the USGA, but we do follow their rules.) 

Please don't answer this. 

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22 minutes ago, reidsou said:

Please don't answer this. 

That’s not how forums work.

You started by asking what you could say to the member. Even I said he may have a point.

It is the off-season after all.

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

That’s not how forums work.

You started by asking what you could say to the member. Even I said he may have a point.

It is the off-season after all.

I didn't appreciate "you are so bent out of shape over this" - which is not accurate, or helpful. 

My question was answered by someone else though, so I will bow out. 

Thanks!

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A. Find a course where the Superintendent isn’t a lazy ass and takes care of the bunkers. 

B. Ask the superintendent to take care of the bunkers. 

C. Volunteer to get up at 4am and do it yourself.  

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6 hours ago, reidsou said:

I didn't appreciate "you are so bent out of shape over this" - which is not accurate, or helpful. 

My question was answered by someone else though, so I will bow out. 

Thanks!

Please remember that threads are a discussion. Don’t read tone into posts. Read comments objectively. If a poster disagrees with you or makes a comment that you feel is not relevant, then that’s all it is. No one is trying to start a fight, they are just disagreeing. You can ignore it, say thanks but I disagree or move on. The moderators will make sure the thread stays on track.

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On 1/10/2020 at 4:03 PM, reidsou said:

I have a member who wants our club to adopt a local rule during off season events to allow "lift, rake, and place" in bunkers. Kind of "winter rules for bunkers". I'm against this because it is not an authorized local rule (Committee Procedures section 8). Violates rules 1.1 and 8.1. I would prefer to avoid precedents of disregarding USGA rules, even in the off season. Plus, I don't see why we should make it easier to play out of bunkers - they are a hazard

I would like to give the member an authoritative convincing answer.

Already tried to get some help from the USGA - asked about their past experience with considering and rejecting this local rule request and/or to explain their perspective on why improving your lie in a bunker is fundamentally different than improving your lie in the fairway (allowed under model local rule E-3). They did not answer, just said it is not allowed. 

Thoughts on what I can say to this member? 

 

I guess I'm with you. I personally would vote against that proposed change FWIW. I agree that bunkers are hazards. You don't want to play from a bad lie in a bunker then stay out of the bunker. As for luck, it applies equally to all. Luck (and bad luck) is part of the game - maybe you get a bad gust of wind and your opponent doesn't. Your ball lands in a fairway divot and your opponent's ball doesn't. Just part of the game.

I played with a guy who whined every time he landed in a bunker because the sand was wet and very hard packed. Made shots out of the bunker very tough. So what? They're supposed to be tough. And, it wasn't any tougher for him than it was for anyone else. 

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