LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[boogielicious]

Saudi woman gets 45 years in prison for social media use | AP News

---

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — A Saudi court has sentenced a woman to 45 years in prison for allegedly damaging the country through her social media activity, according to a court...

The LIV players better keep their wives and girl friends in check.

[Friz]

10 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Its comical hearing ignorant American idiots continually call out the Saudis for their human rights record.

"BuT ItS BlOoD MoNeY" 🤪

https://www.humanrightspulse.com/mastercontentblog/hypocrisy-and-human-rights-abuses-in-the-land-of-the-free

Yes because all of us "ignorant American idiots" blindly support everything happening in this country.  Come on man....this topic is wildly political and not going down that path here, but suffice it to say that there are tons of Americans that are NOT ok with certain things going on here.  Hence all the protests about things that were specifically mentioned in that article.....

[Moxley]

14 hours ago, iacas said:

Leishman is 38. Anirban Lahiri is 92nd in OWGR and… hasn't really done much of note. They're not big losses for the PGA Tour.

 

Individually , not a big loss (not insignificant either). As a group though, it's a big problem that gets bigger with every defection. 

The PGA Tour still has a compelling product, and for fans in some countries that hasn't changed much at all. The issue is that the PGA does not want to have to compete with LIV, and is trying to stop it competing. To do that, they need the world institutions to shut LIV players out , and also keep on board their sponsors. 

Already, it's hard to see fans in South Africa, Mexico, Australia being interested in the presidents cup, which will basically be a farce this year. The same problem will apply to the majors next year if LIV players are excluded - there are now 4 elite golfers with LIV and a dozen or so players who'd normally be in the field, so the competitions are not as credible without, nor would they attract as many fans. 

At the same time, Monahan wants to drastically increase the prize money to come from LIV, so the PGA tour's pitch to the sponsors and broadcasters will effectively be "less for more". Not only that, but needs the OWGR, majors and international team competitions to do the same. He's done an impressive job at getting solidarity from the DP World tour & R&A , but at some point the ultimate funders are going to realise that they are being had, and the PGA Tour will have to accept reality and instead work out a way to coexist with and compete with LIV. 

The 'A' plan to kill LIV has already failed - if it's dragged out, the golf fan will be the loser.  

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

Individually , not a big loss (not insignificant either). As a group though, it's a big problem that gets bigger with every defection.

Meh.

There can't be that many more defections, either. Their field size is 48.

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

The issue is that the PGA does not want to have to compete with LIV, and is trying to stop it competing.

I don't think that's an accurate way of saying that (and I'm not counting that you said PGA and not PGA Tour).

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

Already, it's hard to see fans in South Africa, Mexico, Australia being interested in the presidents cup, which will basically be a farce this year.

The PGA Tour's primary market is still the USA. Sure, they'd love to continue to branch out, but… again, South Africans are not ONLY going to play on LIV, either. You can't divide up 48 into covering too many players from too many countries.

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

The same problem will apply to the majors next year if LIV players are excluded - there are now 4 elite golfers with LIV and a dozen or so players who'd normally be in the field, so the competitions are not as credible without, nor would they attract as many fans.

Many people who watch the majors don't even have a clue who is playing or not. They know like three players, and Tiger is one of them.

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

At the same time, Monahan wants to drastically increase the prize money to come from LIV

Huh?

3 minutes ago, Moxley said:

but at some point the ultimate funders are going to realise that they are being had, and the PGA Tour will have to accept reality and instead work out a way to coexist with and compete with LIV.

I don't know that I agree, but I'm having a little trouble knowing exactly what you're trying to say given the many issues with the things that you've said. 😄

[ChetlovesMer]

13 hours ago, Hugh Jars said:

Its comical hearing ignorant American idiots continually call out the Saudis for their human rights record.

"BuT ItS BlOoD MoNeY" 🤪

https://www.humanrightspulse.com/mastercontentblog/hypocrisy-and-human-rights-abuses-in-the-land-of-the-free

Wow.

The article you posted here is probably off topic. Technically it's not an article. It's a blog entry by a college student. I'm sure the young lady that wrote it is a very nice person. But she has no idea what she's talking about. The areas she points out as human rights violations have been so exaggerated and include so many sweeping generalizations that its almost comical. 

Which is not to say the US hasn't done horrible things during its history. Obviously, every civilized nation of any size has done things its citizens aren't proud of. And the US is no different. We've got our share of nasty ugly skeletons in our closet. 

The young lady who wrote this blog actually could have found dozens of human rights offenses that the US would be guilty of during its history. Instead she suggests "voter suppression"? The bill she's referring to would just bring Florida's voting laws in line with what most of the rest of the country already has. Whether you are for or against allowing non-citizens to vote and/or using government issued ID's as a way of assuring each citizen gets only one vote doesn't matter. Either way, to say that's a human rights offense is at best a stretch. 

She goes on to argue ... and I quote "The death of George Floyd at the hands of US police officers has triggered worldwide protests against police brutality. American protestors have largely been met with further violence from the police." The fact that US citizens protested the way George Floyd was treated shows we don't accept human rights violations here in the US. And we don't just call out other countries for human rights violations. We call out our own country as well. 

AND NO, protestors have NOT been largely met with further violence from the police. Quite the contrary. The police have been assigned to protect the protestors and have done a pretty good job in doing so. Have mistakes been made? Of course there have. Tempers were very high. The vast majority of the protests have been well protected by the police and most protests  have gone off without incident. 

Further more, as a rule, US protestors are always protected by the police. Even Neo-Nazis, Skin-Heads, and Flat-Earthers are protected. Yes, some violent protestors are arrested. Often let go the next day without being charged, but sometimes not. However, in Saudi Arabia, as you all know, they recently beheaded 81 quote/unquote protestors. About half of which hadn't actually participated in protests, but in fact just spoke out about their displeasure with their government. 

So, to this young lady... and to you...  I'd ask; Which is the greater human rights offense, protecting protestors or beheading them? 

Once again, there's lots of sh!t the US has done which has been horrible throughout its history. But this blog entry is so bad that it almost supports the other side of the argument. It's one of those cases where I don't want you on my side, because you are so terrible at argument that it makes us all look bad.

So, to your point; us "Ignorant American Idiots" do speak out against human rights violations in Saudi Arabia. We also speak out against human rights violations here in the US. As human beings we have a responsibility to protect all human rights, for all humans. No matter where they live. We are all part of the human race. You are either part of the solution, part of the problem, or part of the scenery. 

[Jeremie Boop]

15 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Wow.

The article you posted here is probably off topic. 

It's pretty much definitely off topic. But I agree with your point. By and large, the populace of the US does not ignore human rights violations in our own country. I think the main thing is, we have the ability to not put up with it, whereas many places in the world people don't have that freedom.

[iacas]

Yes, we are straying too far from the topic.

[phan52]

Cameron Tringale's letter should be evidence exhibit #1 in defense of the PGA Tour whenever the LIV suit gets to court. The Tour MADE all of those guys, and they know it. 

[StuM]

Just saw below about changes to college players entering the PGAT.  I do not know much about the current system and was curious if this may be related to trying to keep the young players from going to LIV.  Thoughts?

PGA Tour University announces numerous changes ahead of 2022-23 season

---

The path for elite men's college golfers to get to the PGA Tour is being upgraded.

 

 

[turtleback]

On 8/30/2022 at 12:31 PM, Sandy Lie said:

Disagree.

Gas stations live on the money their business generates.

LIV lives on blood money.

If you can't understand that difference . . . .

[turtleback]

22 hours ago, Sandy Lie said:

Relax!

Code for, "I know I've lost the argument so I'm going to make believe you've lost your cool.

[Sandy Lie]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

Yes, we are straying too far from the topic.

For the record or whatever, I believe that someone who aspires to be a PGA Professional in any capacity has a love for the game. I’m dumbfounded as to why a young aspiring player who puts in the work to get to the Tour would throw it all away for LIV. Kids grow up wanting to be the next guy in most sports be it golf, baseball, football, hockey and so on. The dream for these kids is to win the US Open, the World Series, etc. To be able to have their name on the Trophy is what it’s all about. Unfortunately not all PGA players will reach their goals. Lee Trevino I think I remember said there’s to much money on the Tour and some players want to just punch the clock and make cuts to keep their card and have a great career.  Phil, we know his records, one of the best. To me he became Shoeless Joe Jackson or Pete Rose. Got lost in the pursuit of money.  I’m sure there are other reasons. The other players are wanting that late career check for various reasons. Some I don’t understand at all! 

I guess we will wait and see how this unfolds. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Sandy Lie said:

For the record or whatever, I believe that someone who aspires to be a PGA Professional in any capacity has a love for the game. I’m dumbfounded as to why a young aspiring player who puts in the work to get to the Tour would throw it all away for LIV. Kids grow up wanting to be the next guy in most sports be it golf, baseball, football, hockey and so on. The dream for these kids is to win the US Open, the World Series, etc. To be able to have their name on the Trophy is what it’s all about. Unfortunately not all PGA players will reach their goals. Lee Trevino I think I remember said there’s to much money on the Tour and some players want to just punch the clock and make cuts to keep their card and have a great career.  Phil, we know his records, one of the best. To me he became Shoeless Joe Jackson or Pete Rose. Got lost in the pursuit of money.  I’m sure there are other reasons. The other players are wanting that late career check for various reasons. Some I don’t understand at all! 

I guess we will wait and see how this unfolds. 

• I wish people would stop saying "PGA" when they mean "PGA Tour." Especially when they say "PGA Professional."
• Plenty of PGA Tour players treat it as a job. Cam Tringale won the most money on the PGA Tour without ever getting a win. It was a job for CHIII. Winning trophies and competing for legacy is a privilege few can afford. Joel Dahmen has said he plays for the money, and if it wasn't for that, he'd be doing something else.

So… yeah.

[iacas]

Wahhhh wahhhh wahhhh wahhhh.

Open Champion Cameron Smith says it's 'not fair' LIV golfers are not getting ranking points

---

British Open champion Cameron Smith said on Wednesday he felt it was unfair that those who joined LIV Golf are not receiving world ranking points and hopes that changes before his exemption into golf's four...

[jbishop15]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Wha wha wha wha wha.

Open Champion Cameron Smith says it's 'not fair' LIV golfers are not getting ranking points

---

British Open champion Cameron Smith said on Wednesday he felt it was unfair that those who joined LIV Golf are not receiving world ranking points and hopes that changes before his exemption into golf's four...

They just can't help themselves. Guaranteed money, no cuts, three day tournaments, all the perks and ass-kissing they could ever dream of -- and they still find something to complain about. 

You're getting paid over a hundred million dollars to tee it up, man. Shut the f*** up. 

[Jeremie Boop]

25 minutes ago, jbishop15 said:

They just can't help themselves. Guaranteed money, no cuts, three day tournaments, all the perks and ass-kissing they could ever dream of -- and they still find something to complain about. 

You're getting paid over a hundred million dollars to tee it up, man. Shut the f*** up. 

Cake and eat it too syndrome.

 

[Friz]

While anyone leaving for LIV is pretty much off my radar for the rest of their career, I at least have to respect Harold Varner for being the first guy to be legitimately honest about why he left.  Spoiler - its for the money, and he owned it.

 

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Friz said:

While anyone leaving for LIV is pretty much off my radar for the rest of their career, I at least have to respect Harold Varner for being the first guy to be legitimately honest about why he left.  Spoiler - its for the money, and he owned it.

Then he complained about all the "hate" he was feeling from people the next day.