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LIV Golf Tour (was "Alternative" Tours, Phil Cancelled)


iacas

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Good.  Mad props to the R&A.  

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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54 minutes ago, Sandy Divot said:

Just read that Phil will not attend past champions dinner. No haggis for Phil.

I’m sure he’ll be sorely missed.🙄

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2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I’m sure he’ll be sorely missed.🙄

Or miss a bunch of people who are sore at him.

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—Adam

 

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Pure speculation on my part here, but is there any chance his new overlords have sidelined him from a lot of stuff for the time being given how key winning the PR war is for them in year one? I would imagine they were none too pleased by the Shipnuck comments. 

Constantine

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19 minutes ago, JetFan1983 said:

Pure speculation on my part here, but is there any chance his new overlords have sidelined him from a lot of stuff for the time being given how key winning the PR war is for them in year one? I would imagine they were none too pleased by the Shipnuck comments. 

I don’t think it really matters at this point. As far as the PGA TOUR , Phil is dead. He’s not competitive anymore. He’s no longer entertaining to watch. He can Tweet all he once, but who cares if he’s on a course?

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

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2 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t think it really matters at this point. As far as the PGA TOUR , Phil is dead. He’s not competitive anymore. He’s no longer entertaining to watch. He can Tweet all he once, but who cares if he’s on a course?

It just seems like their MO of walling off royals who are on their bad side in a palace somewhere. 

Phil probably has a few hot weeks left in him somewhere down the line too, I would imagine. Regardless though, I am enjoying a more irrelevant Phil these days so I'm not complaining.

Constantine

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On 7/7/2022 at 3:48 PM, iacas said:

At the Portland event they had hired "good looking people" to be "spectators" to be seen and seen with. To put on a good image.

Does this mean the LIV might pay me and my ugly mug to show up at PGA Tour events and get rowdy to put on a bad image for the Tour?

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That would end as soon as Rory, Rahm, JT, and Scottie decide to enter their team in a LIV event without joining LIV.

John

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2 hours ago, Friz said:

And so it begins

 

The referral letter or request to investigate was signed by a Mr. Meg Morman.

—Adam

 

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11 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

That would end as soon as Rory, Rahm, JT, and Scottie decide to enter their team in a LIV event without joining LIV.

The LIV wouldn't stop them, they'd be glad to have more players there. They'd be even happier that they didn't have to pay to obtain those big names.

For the anticompetitive actions specifically, however, investigations will focus on whether the PGA Tour is engaging in any horizontal or single firm conduct. An easy way to think of this is that horizontal conduct is like a cartel or collusion between businesses to keep out competition, and single firm conduct is the type of behavior of your stereotypical single-company monopoly without outside assistance. 

If the PGA Tour is working together with other organizations (PGA of America, USGA, R&A, ANGC, OWGR, DP World Tour, etc.) in an attempt to blackball LIV players from competing in other non-PGA Tour events that would be a prime example of illegal horizontal conduct and more specifically it would likely constitute a group boycott. A group boycott is pretty self-explanatory, in that if the PGA Tour is requesting that the other organizing bodies for tournaments prohibit or otherwise restrict the entry of LIV players it would be a clear example of attempting to coordinate a refusal to do business with targeted individuals/businesses, which is the textbook definition right there. For conflicting event releases the fact that the PGA Tour recognizes specific circuits and blanket approves conflicting event releases for players with another geographic "home circuit" while blanket denying all conflicting event releases within North America is also in danger of violating regulations prohibiting market division between competitors. 

In terms of single firm conduct the PGA Tour is already skirting a fine line when it comes to running afoul of regulations on refusing to deal. It is specifically prohibited to refuse to deal with customers or suppliers (players being suppliers in this case) if the refusal to deal has or intends to have the effect of preventing those customers/suppliers from dealing with rival companies. Refusing to allow for any conflicting event releases within North America could be an example of the PGA Tour suppressing competitors to maintain their monopoly on professional golf in North America, particularly in light of the blanket approval on releases for foreign players who wish to compete in specific tour, not just any tour, in a different geographical area (it would be more easily defensible if it was blanket approval for any event outside of North America rather than only for specific tours).

Requiring that players play in a scheduled PGA Tour event, even one the player was not registered for, over any competing event on its own is a bit of a grey area here specifically due to the classification of players as independent contractors. The PGA Tour cannot control the hours when independent contractors perform work for them, nor can they control whether the players also work for other businesses. They can only specify the minimum/maximum amount of work required of their contractors or any specific events the contractors must be working at. The PGA Tour does specify these terms, stating that regular members must play at least one new event (player has not competed in for the last 4 seasons) per season unless they play at least 25 or more events in the previous or current season, are a life member, veteran member, or dual member of the PGA Tour Champions. They also specify that players must attend at least 15 events per year, or meet specific exemptions, to be a voting member. The PGA Tour does not specify which events a player must attend, nor do they specify that a player must attend a certain number of events to retain eligibility at all. Prohibiting competition in outside events with limited and mostly-discretionary exceptions is not a particularly strong legal position when you're classifying players as independent contractors - it would be akin to Uber prohibiting drivers from working for Lyft on days that Uber was also operational or DoorDash prohibiting drivers from choosing to work for GrubHub instead on any given weekend.

Realistically the case here, both on the independent contractor and the anticompetitive behavior front, are all in very grey areas of the law. Very few things are clear cut or black and white in the realm of employment law, so it'll be some time before any of this shakes out properly. The one thing the PGA Tour is going to be most desperate to avoid is a reclassification of their members as employees rather than independent contractors based on their rules effectively prohibiting players from working for any other professional tour outside of specific "approved competitors". They'd be much more willing to take a slap on the wrist for not allowing players to compete in conflicting events compared to the monumental fines and penalties that would be levied alongside that kind of employee reclassification. 

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TLTR…

But I doubt LIV would allow a non-LIV assembled team to play in only a single LIV event.

It would be an interesting situation as there would be risk on both sides.

John

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5 hours ago, Friz said:

And so it begins

A quote from the article:

"A spokesman for the PGA Tour said it was aware of the investigation—and was confident it would prevail."

So…

2 hours ago, imsys0042 said:

The referral letter or request to investigate was signed by a Mr. Meg Morman.

What kind of a guy's name is "Meg" anyway?

4 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

That would end as soon as Rory, Rahm, JT, and Scottie decide to enter their team in a LIV event without joining LIV.

Huh?

Excuse Me Reaction GIF by Bounce

That doesn't even make sense.

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

[Tyler pretending to be a lawyer or something…?]

Congratulations on passing the bar and becoming a specialist in contract/labor law, I guess…? I don't think much of that is super accurate. At the base, the Tour players are not truly 100% independent contractors, and even independent contractors out there in the world can be contracted to do certain things or meet stricter requirements if they, you know, sign a contract. PGA Tour players have to abide by all manner of regulations and requirements. They aren't ever forced to play an event, but they also can't just show up in shorts. They can be fined if they bad-mouth a tournament sponsor (or a fellow PGA Tour player), and all sorts of things. Because they agreed to become a member of the Tour. They set their own schedule… and can arrange for some of their own sponsors, but they also cannot play without a caddie, in shorts, or on a Tuesday to count their round.

31 minutes ago, 70sSanO said:

It would be an interesting situation as there would be risk on both sides.

It's not interesting at all, because it's not going to happen. It makes no sense.

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11 minutes ago, iacas said:

What kind of a guy's name is "Meg" anyway?

 

The kind of guy who can magically made a lead disappear on Sunday!

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—Adam

 

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2 hours ago, imsys0042 said:

The kind of guy who can magically made a lead disappear on Sunday!

Sounds like someone who wants golf tournaments to end 18 holes early.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

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The LIV Tour is not going away, even if it ends up just a private tour.

I suspect the PGA Tour probably can’t ban an otherwise qualified player from playing a PGA Tour event based on playing on the LIV Tour.

OGWR is the key to who plays.  As long as LIV players get no points, eventually they will have to go through the same qualifying process to play in a PGA event.

If they get awarded OWGR points from LIV events, that changes everything.

John

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