LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[Big Lex]

9 hours ago, GolfLug said:

Guess who is laying down his groundwork to defect to LIV.

I wanna say Cameron Smith. The real shock would be Sir Eldrick. 

[GolfLug]

4 hours ago, Big Lex said:

I wanna say Cameron Smith. The real shock would be Sir Eldrick. 

Ohh, sorry for not quoting the previous post but I was talking about James Hahn. His rant seemed like a segway for a jump. Sometimes my posts don't work like they appear in my head.. ha ha.

But since you mentioned Cam Smith, that would be bit of a heart breaker. Among the defectors, the only one I somewhat cared about is DJ. 

I am not sure how Tiger can go. He prolly wouldn't be able to play enough even by LIV standards. But who knows, maybe they don't care even if he shows up but once a year. Tabloid headlines keep saying he turned down offers. 

Anyway, a bit of numbness starting to set in about the whole thing.

[iacas]

[imsys0042]

1 hour ago, GolfLug said:

Ohh, sorry for not quoting the previous post but I was talking about James Hahn. His rant seemed like a segway for a jump. Sometimes my posts don't work like they appear in my head.. ha ha.

I am not sure how Tiger can go. He prolly wouldn't be able to play enough even by LIV standards. But who knows, maybe they don't care even if he shows up but once a year. Tabloid headlines keep saying he turned down offers. 

Tiger turned down around 900 million dollars to be associated with LIV.

James Hahn is a whiny douche.   He has the Pat Perez argument which is basically somehow the Tour forces him to travel the way that he does.  These guys whine like employees being told what to do when it suits them, and then they play the "independent contractor" card when they want to act with impunity when its suits them.

 

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, GolfLug said:

Anyway, a bit of numbness starting to set in about the whole thing.

For you and me both. 👍

 

8 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

 These guys whine like employees being told what to do when it suits them, and then they play the "independent contractor" card when they want to act with impunity when its suits them.

I kind of thought the same thing. 

[Friz]

4 hours ago, GolfLug said:

Ohh, sorry for not quoting the previous post but I was talking about James Hahn. His rant seemed like a segway for a jump. Sometimes my posts don't work like they appear in my head.. ha ha.

But since you mentioned Cam Smith, that would be bit of a heart breaker. Among the defectors, the only one I somewhat cared about is DJ. 

I am not sure how Tiger can go. He prolly wouldn't be able to play enough even by LIV standards. But who knows, maybe they don't care even if he shows up but once a year. Tabloid headlines keep saying he turned down offers. 

Anyway, a bit of numbness starting to set in about the whole thing.

Numbness is a really good way to describe it.  It was somewhat fascinating at first, like a train wreck that you can't look away from.  I tuned into a few minutes of the first two events for that same reason, they were pretty much what I expected and held absolutely no long term appeal, and the commentary specifically turned me off quicker than anything else.  For the third tournament, I just didn't care.  Nothing to see, not interesting for any of the past reasons, didn't give it an ounce of thought.

The players leaving feels the same way...unless they pull one of the true A-Tier guys, its just white noise at this point.  James Hahn wants to go to LIV?  Oh no!  Anyway....he's just another B, C, or D-Tier guy that isn't moving the needle for me.  LIV confirmed 48 permanent guys is their intent for next season, so if I have to accept LIV existence, even if its short term, then great fill it up with guys like James Hahn who's presence won't be missed by the PGA Tour.  The tour will be just fine and have plenty of guys hungry to take his place.

No chance Tiger goes, he's already a literal billionaire, and turned down $700-$800 million according to Greg Norman himself.  But Cam Smith would be very disappointing for me as well, would be the first true loss in my eyes.

 

Also, the excuses for leaving have always felt shallow, but the lawsuit is almost funny at this point.  "The PGA Tour is making me play too many events, I need more free time!"  "Congratulations, you made it to LIV, what are you going to do with all your extra time now?"  "I'm going to find a way to go play all those extra PGA Tour events!"

 

[Zeph]

Tiger is still around pretty much because he wants to win more majors. Going to LIV could jeopardize that. He’s loaded for life in the financial department and I really hope he never considered defecting for the sake of his own legacy.

[GolfLug]

50 minutes ago, Friz said:

Also, the excuses for leaving have always felt shallow, but the lawsuit is almost funny at this point.  "The PGA Tour is making me play too many events, I need more free time!"  "Congratulations, you made it to LIV, what are you going to do with all your extra time now?"  "I'm going to find a way to go play all those extra PGA Tour events!"

 

Ha ha ha ha ha.. FULL CIRCLE! 

[70sSanO]

The problem I have with the lawsuit is that the top 30 PGA Tour players can’t show up and play a LIV event.

If a contractual agreement, (that requires playing a certain number of LIV events) is necessary, it is difficult to see a difference between a LIV player playing a selective PGA Tour event and a PGA Tour player playing a selective LIV Tour event.

This is not about how much LIV would jump at it, it is more about what each competing tour (competition is so ugly in anti-trust) requires of their contracted players to participate in an event.

I would think the lawsuit would hold a lot more weight if the LIV Tour were being prevented from operating, or prevented players from playing in a LIV event, by the PGA Tour.  It would seem hard to determine any damages to players who are now able to continue with their livelihood and receiving a higher compensation.

John

 

[70sSanO]

On 8/3/2022 at 4:38 PM, phillyk said:

Nope. My buddy eats every word of it. He thinks PGA Tour is about to fail and disappear, to be replaced by LIV. He thinks LIV is better at growing the game than the PGA Tour. He thinks Nike is the same as SA. I’ve given up with it. He is so obsessed with money, that he is blind to all else. 

I don’t know who your buddy is, but I’m guessing he ain’t getting any of the Saudi money anyway.

I read an article where someone with LIV golf described the current golf viewer demographics.  I don’t remember the exact ages and percentages, but current viewers are primarily old and that in 25 years the majority of the viewership will be dead.

I wonder if any of this really matters over time.  Except for those who are being paid to play, will it really change the millions who play golf and don’t watch.

I do a lot of cycling.  I’ll watch some highlights of the Tour de France; even I can’t watch 5 hours of peddling.  But the disparity between professional cyclists and people who ride bikes, and don’t care about the pros, is probably off the charts.

Golf might go the same way.

John

[Friz]

Let's say hypothetically they win this case.  PGA tour players have to play a minimum of 15 events to keep cards.  LIV players are moving to a 14 tournament schedule next year, plus 11 events on the Asian tour they're expected to play in some of.  So at a minimum these guys are going to need to play somewhere around 32 to 35 weeks every year to do both.

In a worst case scenario...does this just work itself out in a year or two with the LIV guys not able to keep up with both?  

[Shindig]

1 minute ago, Friz said:

Let's say hypothetically they win this case.  PGA tour players have to play a minimum of 15 events to keep cards.  LIV players are moving to a 14 tournament schedule next year, plus 11 events on the Asian tour they're expected to play in some of.  So at a minimum these guys are going to need to play somewhere around 32 to 35 weeks every year to do both.

In a worst case scenario...does this just work itself out in a year or two with the LIV guys not able to keep up with both?  

Then the big winners in that situation are Ian Poulter's family, who get rid of him for 32 to 35 weeks a year.

[Vinsk]

Just a stack of douche bags. All of ‘em.

[DeadMan]

1 hour ago, Friz said:

In a worst case scenario...does this just work itself out in a year or two with the LIV guys not able to keep up with both?  

I think the worst case scenario is the big names like JT, Rory, or Spieth playing in LIV events because they know they won't be banned. If that happens, the PGA Tour will start circling the drain fast.

[Big Lex]

3 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

I would think the lawsuit would hold a lot more weight if the LIV Tour were being prevented from operating, or prevented players from playing in a LIV event, by the PGA Tour.  It would seem hard to determine any damages to players who are now able to continue with their livelihood and receiving a higher compensation.

John

 

Could LIV file an antitrust action? Can they argue that the PGA Tour's actions are in restraint of trade and prevent or limit LIV's operations? 

[DeadMan]

6 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

Could LIV file an antitrust action? Can they argue that the PGA Tour's actions are in restraint of trade and prevent or limit LIV's operations? 

Yes. LIV has a slam dunk antitrust case against the PGA Tour, based on what's in the lawsuit filed by the LIV players. 

[Vinsk]

DL3 spoke well on this. Norman is a self serving, greedy SOB.

[70sSanO]

1 hour ago, DeadMan said:

Yes. LIV has a slam dunk antitrust case against the PGA Tour, based on what's in the lawsuit filed by the LIV players. 

So I guess everything is being run through you and you have already reviewed all the PGA Tour’s internal documents.

John