LIV Golf (Saudi PIF), "Mergers," and More

[70sSanO]

One thing I do know is that, depending how this plays out, it could be a PR disaster for the suing players and the Saudis.

I am surprised that the Saudis haven’t stepped in and squashed this since it is player (Norman) driven and it is hard to see the sports washing benefit.

In the end it will be the Saudi government being party to suing an American (PGA Tour) organization.  It could backfire spectacularly.

John

 

[The Flush]

 

 

 

 

[cutchemist42]

Been seeing many Twitter opinions but there is some legit anti competitive practise on the record in that suit, to some of the smaller businesses that help setup events.

[GolfLug]

9 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

One thing I do know is that, depending how this plays out, it could be a PR disaster for the suing players and the Saudis.

I am surprised that the Saudis haven’t stepped in and squashed this since it is player (Norman) driven and it is hard to see the sports washing benefit.

In the end it will be the Saudi government being party to suing an American (PGA Tour) organization.  It could backfire spectacularly.

John

 

Very astute. 

[hunterdog]

21 hours ago, Friz said:

Let's say hypothetically they win this case.  PGA tour players have to play a minimum of 15 events to keep cards.  LIV players are moving to a 14 tournament schedule next year, plus 11 events on the Asian tour they're expected to play in some of.  So at a minimum these guys are going to need to play somewhere around 32 to 35 weeks every year to do both.

In a worst case scenario...does this just work itself out in a year or two with the LIV guys not able to keep up with both?  

I haven’t seen anything that the Saudi players have agreed to a 15 event minimum for the PGAT. In fact, everything suggests that they want to play in only select events, like the Memorial and Bay Hill. And, of course, the season ending FedEx events.

[Vinsk]

 

[Shindig]

1 hour ago, hunterdog said:

I haven’t seen anything that the Saudi players have agreed to a 15 event minimum for the PGAT. In fact, everything suggests that they want to play in only select events, like the Memorial and Bay Hill. And, of course, the season ending FedEx events.

Doubly too bad for them that the FedEx events are for Tour members, and membership requires (among other things) participating in at least fifteen events.

4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

 

Of all people to take advice from about the final quarter of your playing career, the man whose final quarter of tournaments had the tendency ... well, we all know.

[Friz]

2 hours ago, hunterdog said:

I haven’t seen anything that the Saudi players have agreed to a 15 event minimum for the PGAT. In fact, everything suggests that they want to play in only select events, like the Memorial and Bay Hill. And, of course, the season ending FedEx events.

They already have agreed to it, part of being a PGA Tour member is an agreement to play a minimum of 15 events each season.  If they're suing to be allowed to play PGA Tour events, under the idea that they're still PGA Tour members, then they'd have to play a minimum of 15 events to continue being a member.

So they either play 15 events on PGA Tour plus 14 events for LIV plus 5 or 6 Asian Tour events as part of their LIV obligation....or they have to drop one of the tours.

[iacas]

12 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

One thing I do know is that, depending how this plays out, it could be a PR disaster for the suing players and the Saudis.

I am surprised that the Saudis haven’t stepped in and squashed this since it is player (Norman) driven and it is hard to see the sports washing benefit.

In the end it will be the Saudi government being party to suing an American (PGA Tour) organization.  It could backfire spectacularly.

Uhmmmmm, no?

[70sSanO]

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

Uhmmmmm, no?

Really.  Greg Norman is the CEO of LIV Golf and as such his statements reflect the owners which is the Saudi PIF.  I'm sure it is pretty easy to find Norman's support for the lawsuit.  By default his support equals Saudi Arabia's support.

It is no different than any other CEO making statements that are related to his/her official capacity.  The CEO of Boeing on matters of pending litigation; such as Airbus.

Greg Norman's statements on topics unrelated to golf have no bearing.

John

Edit Added:  Even with employees who go and say or do something that is either illegal or highly offensive.  There is always a company statement that the actions do not reflect the company values etc. etc.

Edited August 6, 2022 by 70sSanO

[iacas]

7 hours ago, 70sSanO said:

Really.  Greg Norman is the CEO of LIV Golf and as such his statements reflect the owners which is the Saudi PIF.  I'm sure it is pretty easy to find Norman's support for the lawsuit.  By default his support equals Saudi Arabia's support.

It is no different than any other CEO making statements that are related to his/her official capacity.  The CEO of Boeing on matters of pending litigation; such as Airbus.

Greg Norman's statements on topics unrelated to golf have no bearing.

John

Edit Added:  Even with employees who go and say or do something that is either illegal or highly offensive.  There is always a company statement that the actions do not reflect the company values etc. etc.

You missed my point. Completely.

The Saudis are funding this and you think they should have the players withdraw it? C’mon man.

It’s not going to be a PR disaster. It’s already been a win.

[70sSanO]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

You missed my point. Completely.

The Saudis are funding this and you think they should have the players withdraw it? C’mon man.

It’s not going to be a PR disaster. It’s already been a win.

Well you only posted 2 words.

If the support for this suit is already acknowledged to be from Saudi Arabia, the PGA Tour needs to stop talking about the players and LIV and start talking about Saudi Arabia in the press.

Sports washing only works if you are getting a favorable public and corporate opinion.  This has to be spun as the government of Saudi Arabia being a genuine threat to American sports institutions.

John

[Moxley]

1 hour ago, 70sSanO said:

Well you only posted 2 words.

If the support for this suit is already acknowledged to be from Saudi Arabia, the PGA Tour needs to stop talking about the players and LIV and start talking about Saudi Arabia in the press.

Sports washing only works if you are getting a favorable public and corporate opinion.  This has to be spun as the government of Saudi Arabia being a genuine threat to American sports institutions.

John

One small point - more of the world exists outside of America than inside. I can see how Americans may want to back their own institutions out of patriotism, but those outside of America will be more likely to look at it on its merits, and it's hard to conclude that they don't have a case here. 

 

Whether the PR aspect is meaningfully beneficial to Liv is questionable, but I struggle to see how it's damaging to them. 

[70sSanO]

1 hour ago, Moxley said:

One small point - more of the world exists outside of America than inside. I can see how Americans may want to back their own institutions out of patriotism, but those outside of America will be more likely to look at it on its merits, and it's hard to conclude that they don't have a case here. 

 

Whether the PR aspect is meaningfully beneficial to Liv is questionable, but I struggle to see how it's damaging to them. 

I agree with you.  I don't have the answers to this.  I don't know why the PGAT and not the DPWT was selected since, I believe, both organizations have suspended players.  A bit more puzzling with the Stenson situation.

I am also not sure of the Premier League situation and why the Saudis didn't pursue any litigation.  Part of me thinks that there are certain sports you just don't mess with because the clubs and fanbases will rise up if they feel any threat, especially from a foreign government.

I think the PGAT is low hanging fruit and its fanbase will not react as footballer fans might, or even the fans from the birthplace of golf.  I can't say.

I do feel that recent times have proven that the proper spin and fear has much more of an impact regardless of the reality of the spin.  As an example, if the spin was, "The Saudi Govt is going after American golf and American football and baseball are next," you have engaged a much larger and more vocal portion of the population.  Plus, the rhetoric is no longer directed at players or LIV, but a silent stakeholder that may not be able to win the social media war.  It makes little difference about the validity of the spin, only the fear of the spin.

John

[Shindig]

It appears that PGA Tour players are allowed to take off tournaments to spend time with their families.  Who knew, other than just about everybody?

Tommy Fleetwood appears to be skipping FedExCup Playoffs after tweet

---

Tommy Fleetwood’s status for the rest of the season, including the FedExCup Playoffs, is in question after he announced that he was taking some time away.

 

[hunterdog]

On 8/5/2022 at 10:03 PM, Friz said:

They already have agreed to it, part of being a PGA Tour member is an agreement to play a minimum of 15 events each season.  If they're suing to be allowed to play PGA Tour events, under the idea that they're still PGA Tour members, then they'd have to play a minimum of 15 events to continue being a member.

So they either play 15 events on PGA Tour plus 14 events for LIV plus 5 or 6 Asian Tour events as part of their LIV obligation....or they have to drop one of the tours.

They also agreed not to play in competing events without an exemption and further agreed not to play in competing events in North America where no exemptions would be given. Yet here they are, in federal court.

[Vinsk]

Tell ya what…after watching Finau win back to back, then watching a hell of an intense Women’s Open final….really makes the LIV look like a cricket match. Just no comparison in entertainment. The women at Murifield but on a great show.

[Beastie]

8 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Tell ya what…after watching Finau win back to back, then watching a hell of an intense Women’s Open final….really makes the LIV look like a cricket match. Just no comparison in entertainment. The women at Murifield but on a great show.

Absolutely correct. Part of the reason that I love watching golf is that it is a cutthroat sport. Miss a putt, lose the tournament, hope a chip win big. My friend from school  was playing in the Dp World tour event in Wales last week. On Friday he bogeyed 16 and 17 to sit one above the cut. Then on 18 he hit his second from 265yards to 6 feet and holed the eagle to make sure he was getting paid that week. Loads of pressure. 
 

The LiV tour is like watching an exhibition. Boring. 
The Womens open finale was cracking, and Muirfield is a great course for big tournaments