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I know that driver technology moves pretty quick but I had no idea how much of a difference it could make. My golfing life (about 4 years) I've only had 1 driver the Taylormade Rocketballz driver from 2011 9.5 loft with a stiff shaft I decided it was time for an upgrade and after a bunch of research and looking around I landed on the Ping G400 Max 9 degree with a stiff shaft and the changes were pretty incredible. Today was my first day hitting it on a simulator and my ball speed went up around 10MPH which i think is just absurd. Now I know there are places that jack up numbers to make players feel better but all my iron distances match up with what I see so if it is I'm sure it's not much but anyway it's less about what the numbers are and more about the improvement of the club. They have the same size 460CC head but with my Taylormade my ball speed hung around high 150s highest I remember seeing was 162 and with the Ping driver I was consistently around 170! highest was 173 and boy this thing was forgiving. Only thing is I think I need to do is adjust the loft down because I was hitting moon shots my spin rate was consistently over 4500 but was still getting consistent 290+ carry I think there is more distance to pull out of this club. 

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Absolutely nothing to do with technology improvements.

The most revealing thing in your posts is the "consistent 290+ carry". Welcome to the tour. If this were true on a golf course why would you be bothering to be comparing?

The difference is most likely the shaft but a 10 MPH ball speed difference is ridiculous.

Faulty monitors designed to flatter and divest you of your money.

 

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1 hour ago, Lugowskins said:

because I was hitting moon shots my spin rate was consistently over 4500 but was still getting consistent 290+ carry I think there is more distance to pull out of this club. 

This doesn’t add up. “Consistent” 170s ball speed and “consistent” over 4500 back spin does not constitute “consistent” 290+ carry. Indeed, the average PGA Tour pro gets just under 170 ball speed on average and with far superior launch conditions that you are achieving, e.g, optimal spin, under 40* descent, etc. Further, and I mean no offense at all, but looking at the totality of the circumstances with your swing progression, posts, and suspect purported numbers, I’m not buying it. I know numbers as a launch monitor owner myself. 

I say this not out of jealousy or pride—I don’t know you. I hope you play your best. I get no satisfaction out of failure of someone I don’t know. I play my game and do the best I can against Old Man Par. However, you need to have a more critical eye when it comes to your game and not buy the Kool-Aid. Something is definitely wrong here. A person’s “consistent” is most often misconstrued from one range session or a few isolated events. That’s what people do. They protect their ego. However, true improvement only comes when you get real with your self and take steps to improve. That’s why I advocate gapping distances based off of “reasonably well struck hits.” The last thing you want to do is base your numbers and perception of yourself is on a few awesome hits that are seldom in your game. These “hero” shots are not the norm and it is not reasonable to claim them as your standard performance.

Here, I don’t see what you claim. The evidence simply does not add up, and it is not a personal attack; it is merely a strong inference based upon my knowledge of numbers and the facts you have presented. 

image.png.d798def9bbfdc457ab24a06c66678fd5.png

Edited by ncates00

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29 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

This doesn’t add up. “Consistent” 170s ball speed and “consistent” over 4500 back spin does not constitute “consistent” 290+ carry. Indeed, the average PGA Tour pro gets just under 170 ball speed on average and with far superior launch conditions that you are achieving, e.g, optimal spin, under 40* descent, etc. Further, and I mean no offense at all, but looking at the totality of the circumstances with your swing progression, posts, and suspect purported numbers, I’m not buying it. I know numbers as a launch monitor owner myself. 

I say this not out of jealousy or pride—I don’t know you. I hope you play your best. I get no satisfaction out of failure of someone I don’t know. I play my game and do the best I can against Old Man Par. However, you need to have a more critical eye when it comes to your game and not buy the Kool-Aid. Something is definitely wrong here. A person’s “consistent” is most often misconstrued from one range session or a few isolated events. That’s what people do. They protect their ego. However, true improvement only comes when you get real with your self and take steps to improve. That’s why I advocate gapping distances based off of “reasonably well struck hits.” The last thing you want to do is base your numbers and perception of yourself is on a few awesome hits that are seldom in your game. These “hero” shots are not the norm and it is not reasonable to claim them as your standard performance.

Here, I don’t see what you claim. The evidence simply does not add up, and it is not a personal attack; it is merely a strong inference based upon my knowledge of numbers and the facts you have presented. 

image.png.d798def9bbfdc457ab24a06c66678fd5.png

Excellent analysis!  Will you be my golf therapist?  😀

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1 hour ago, Lugowskins said:

I was consistently around 170! highest was 173 and boy this thing was forgiving.

I ran Flightscope's optimizer, and at 173 (your purported highest ball speed) with an altitude of 5k ft and 12* launch, you can get your 290 carry.  However, notice, this was with idealized numbers, maxed out--hardly "consistent" or an average performance.  


Find your optimal ball flight trajectory and add distance to your golf shots. Use FlightScope's Trajectory Optimizer to plot ball flight in real-time.

 

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1 hour ago, ncates00 said:

This doesn’t add up. “Consistent” 170s ball speed and “consistent” over 4500 back spin does not constitute “consistent” 290+ carry. Indeed, the average PGA Tour pro gets just under 170 ball speed on average and with far superior launch conditions that you are achieving, e.g, optimal spin, under 40* descent, etc. Further, and I mean no offense at all, but looking at the totality of the circumstances with your swing progression, posts, and suspect purported numbers, I’m not buying it. I know numbers as a launch monitor owner myself. 

I say this not out of jealousy or pride—I don’t know you. I hope you play your best. I get no satisfaction out of failure of someone I don’t know. I play my game and do the best I can against Old Man Par. However, you need to have a more critical eye when it comes to your game and not buy the Kool-Aid. Something is definitely wrong here. A person’s “consistent” is most often misconstrued from one range session or a few isolated events. That’s what people do. They protect their ego. However, true improvement only comes when you get real with your self and take steps to improve. That’s why I advocate gapping distances based off of “reasonably well struck hits.” The last thing you want to do is base your numbers and perception of yourself is on a few awesome hits that are seldom in your game. These “hero” shots are not the norm and it is not reasonable to claim them as your standard performance.

Here, I don’t see what you claim. The evidence simply does not add up, and it is not a personal attack; it is merely a strong inference based upon my knowledge of numbers and the facts you have presented. 

image.png.d798def9bbfdc457ab24a06c66678fd5.png

Literally just giving you the numbers the simulator pumped out I said in the post to take the numbers with a grain of salt and was just talking about the ball speed increase. 

2 hours ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Absolutely nothing to do with technology improvements.

The most revealing thing in your posts is the "consistent 290+ carry". Welcome to the tour. If this were true on a golf course why would you be bothering to be comparing?

The difference is most likely the shaft but a 10 MPH ball speed difference is ridiculous.

Faulty monitors designed to flatter and divest you of your money.

 

It's definitely a better shaft but that can't be that much of a difference right? Also, the dude who owns it doesn't even sell clubs so no reason to mess with the monitor. It's a driving range, putt putt course and simulator he has like balls, gloves and grips but as far as I know he doesn't sell any clubs out of there. I'm sure he wants us to score better so we'll keep coming back but he's never talked about clubs with us. Of course I'm not expecting to go out and have a 290 carry on the course but it's winter and I'm probably 3 months away from the weather allowing me to get out so until then ya'll can hear about my simulator experience lol

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3 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Playing it on the course is the only way to be sure.  Ask if you can demo it on your favorite course.

I bought it online and I live in Michigan so I'm a few months away from stepping foot on a course lol

1 hour ago, ncates00 said:

This doesn’t add up. “Consistent” 170s ball speed and “consistent” over 4500 back spin does not constitute “consistent” 290+ carry. Indeed, the average PGA Tour pro gets just under 170 ball speed on average and with far superior launch conditions that you are achieving, e.g, optimal spin, under 40* descent, etc. Further, and I mean no offense at all, but looking at the totality of the circumstances with your swing progression, posts, and suspect purported numbers, I’m not buying it. I know numbers as a launch monitor owner myself. 

I say this not out of jealousy or pride—I don’t know you. I hope you play your best. I get no satisfaction out of failure of someone I don’t know. I play my game and do the best I can against Old Man Par. However, you need to have a more critical eye when it comes to your game and not buy the Kool-Aid. Something is definitely wrong here. A person’s “consistent” is most often misconstrued from one range session or a few isolated events. That’s what people do. They protect their ego. However, true improvement only comes when you get real with your self and take steps to improve. That’s why I advocate gapping distances based off of “reasonably well struck hits.” The last thing you want to do is base your numbers and perception of yourself is on a few awesome hits that are seldom in your game. These “hero” shots are not the norm and it is not reasonable to claim them as your standard performance.

Here, I don’t see what you claim. The evidence simply does not add up, and it is not a personal attack; it is merely a strong inference based upon my knowledge of numbers and the facts you have presented. 

image.png.d798def9bbfdc457ab24a06c66678fd5.png

I'll go ahead and video some of our next round so you can see the numbers that I'm being given. Again, it's not a brag I pointed out that the numbers were probably wrong just talking about a clubs improvement that shocked me. Hence it being in the club section.

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Next time on that launch monitor, check out a few things.  
1.  Are there people’s names in there on the player list?  If so, try hitting using the default player and a couple other player names.  Reason being the settings can be changed depending on the persons clubhead speed... it’s a “player profile” thing.

2.  I think you mentioned the irons were correct.  That could be because on the “About Golf” sims you can go into the players profile and change the settings on long clubs  mid clubs and short clubs.  The numbers assigned are usually never the same across the board.  So for you, the irons might be right but the number in the profile for long clubs is wrong for you.  My settings are 7,5,5.  I know how far I hit it so I adjust the settings so they match up what I know my distances are.

 

Just trying to help you make sure what you see inside matches what you are doing outside.  Makes playing with the indoor stuff more enjoyable and productive

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1 hour ago, Typhoon92 said:

Next time on that launch monitor, check out a few things.  
1.  Are there people’s names in there on the player list?  If so, try hitting using the default player and a couple other player names.  Reason being the settings can be changed depending on the persons clubhead speed... it’s a “player profile” thing.

2.  I think you mentioned the irons were correct.  That could be because on the “About Golf” sims you can go into the players profile and change the settings on long clubs  mid clubs and short clubs.  The numbers assigned are usually never the same across the board.  So for you, the irons might be right but the number in the profile for long clubs is wrong for you.  My settings are 7,5,5.  I know how far I hit it so I adjust the settings so they match up what I know my distances are.

 

Just trying to help you make sure what you see inside matches what you are doing outside.  Makes playing with the indoor stuff more enjoyable and productive

That's very helpful next time I'm in there I'll ask him about that! I've talked to the guy who owns it about performance carry over and he says he'll generally shoot under par on the sim but low 70s on the course which is really all I care about. Driving distance doesn't mean much but if I can hit greens consistently that matters to me if that is an accurate portrayal of real golf or not.  But everyone seems to be caught up on the numbers I posted when all this was supposed to be about was how 7 years of driver tech (RBZ was 2011 I believe G400 was 2018) made such a drastic difference for me. No matter the settings I don't care if my ball speed was 120 before and it's 130 now the equipment added 10MPH and that's all I'm commenting on. The peripherals of what the simulator said was happening doesn't matter I'm enjoying playing on it not because some bs swing speed ego boost or something but because I get to golf competitively with my friends year round. 

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29 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

That's very helpful next time I'm in there I'll ask him about that! I've talked to the guy who owns it about performance carry over and he says he'll generally shoot under par on the sim but low 70s on the course which is really all I care about.

I don't care if my ball speed was 120 before and it's 130 now the equipment added 10MPH and that's all I'm commenting on.

1. - Why would you listen to someone  who claims to shoot "scores" on a simulator - as if that has any relationship to real world conditions?

2. - You did NOT gain 10MPH ball speed. Not possible. Both clubs you used are modern and very comparable. It would be like saying that the red car was faster than the blue one.

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If he shoots close inside to what he shoots outside, that’s cool and fine.  I’ve been working with these for years.  The chipping and putting are the toughest part.  Much easier outside.  But then inside the rough and traps are not really rough and traps so that’s easier.  It all evens out a bit.

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I would suggest when hitting a new driver on a launch monitor that you take along your old driver and hit that at the same time then see if there is a difference. 10 MPH is an awful lot of gain just by changing drivers, but other know better then I do. 

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On 2/1/2020 at 7:28 PM, ncates00 said:

I ran Flightscope's optimizer, and at 173 (your purported highest ball speed) with an altitude of 5k ft and 12* launch, you can get your 290 carry.  However, notice, this was with idealized numbers, maxed out--hardly "consistent" or an average performance.  


Find your optimal ball flight trajectory and add distance to your golf shots. Use FlightScope's Trajectory Optimizer to plot ball flight in real-time.

 

Said I would show you the numbers from our next session so here they are, video link is at the bottom. I only caught a handful of drives as I had it set up the whole round but apparently didn't have enough memory left and it cut out after just a few holes. It's also pretty blurry you can make the numbers out but to save your eyes I posted them here. 

First shot is a warmup driver pre round you can see the stats from my prior shot

169.6 ball speed 4391 backspin 294.5 carry

the first shot you see me actually hit goes

171.1 ball speed 3393 backspin 308 carry I notice its the ones I don't catch clean is where the backspin shoots up when I find the center of the clubface its generally low 3K

next shot was one like I had called a moonshot dude who was watching made a sarcastic comment "what you didn't eat breakfast" when I didn't drive the green

168.4 ball speed 4592 backspin 287.2 carry

and the last one I captured of mine was a slightly downhill hole that went

172.6 ball speed 3170 backspin 311 carry 

My friend Aaron who I play with is the longest hitter I've seen in person won 2/6 long drive holes in our scrambles last year would have won at least 2 more had he been in the fairway his two shots I captured went

173.1 ball speed 4442 backspin 303 carry he definitely needs to get fitted as he hits his driver too high out on the course. His second was not a good shot by him but went

162.7 ball speed 3077 backspin 282.8 carry

Now I did bring my old driver and once our round was over we had some time left so I hit about 6-7 shots with it and could not get that ball speed much over 160 I wasn't paying much attention to anything other than ball speed as I thought it was recording and I was just going to go over the numbers later but it was essentially stuck between 158-162 never got one over that.

 

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19 hours ago, Lugowskins said:

Said I would show you the numbers from our next session so here they are, video link is at the bottom. I only caught a handful of drives as I had it set up the whole round but apparently didn't have enough memory left and it cut out after just a few holes. It's also pretty blurry you can make the numbers out but to save your eyes I posted them here. 

First shot is a warmup driver pre round you can see the stats from my prior shot

169.6 ball speed 4391 backspin 294.5 carry

the first shot you see me actually hit goes

171.1 ball speed 3393 backspin 308 carry I notice its the ones I don't catch clean is where the backspin shoots up when I find the center of the clubface its generally low 3K

next shot was one like I had called a moonshot dude who was watching made a sarcastic comment "what you didn't eat breakfast" when I didn't drive the green

168.4 ball speed 4592 backspin 287.2 carry

and the last one I captured of mine was a slightly downhill hole that went

172.6 ball speed 3170 backspin 311 carry 

My friend Aaron who I play with is the longest hitter I've seen in person won 2/6 long drive holes in our scrambles last year would have won at least 2 more had he been in the fairway his two shots I captured went

173.1 ball speed 4442 backspin 303 carry he definitely needs to get fitted as he hits his driver too high out on the course. His second was not a good shot by him but went

162.7 ball speed 3077 backspin 282.8 carry

Now I did bring my old driver and once our round was over we had some time left so I hit about 6-7 shots with it and could not get that ball speed much over 160 I wasn't paying much attention to anything other than ball speed as I thought it was recording and I was just going to go over the numbers later but it was essentially stuck between 158-162 never got one over that.

https://youtu.be/rXE6cmEPgfo

 

Impressive ball speed.  What LM are you running?

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19 hours ago, Lugowskins said:

Said I would show you the numbers from our next session so here they are, video link is at the bottom. I only caught a handful of drives as I had it set up the whole round but apparently didn't have enough memory left and it cut out after just a few holes. It's also pretty blurry you can make the numbers out but to save your eyes I posted them here. 

First shot is a warmup driver pre round you can see the stats from my prior shot

169.6 ball speed 4391 backspin 294.5 carry

the first shot you see me actually hit goes

171.1 ball speed 3393 backspin 308 carry I notice its the ones I don't catch clean is where the backspin shoots up when I find the center of the clubface its generally low 3K

next shot was one like I had called a moonshot dude who was watching made a sarcastic comment "what you didn't eat breakfast" when I didn't drive the green

168.4 ball speed 4592 backspin 287.2 carry

and the last one I captured of mine was a slightly downhill hole that went

172.6 ball speed 3170 backspin 311 carry 

My friend Aaron who I play with is the longest hitter I've seen in person won 2/6 long drive holes in our scrambles last year would have won at least 2 more had he been in the fairway his two shots I captured went

173.1 ball speed 4442 backspin 303 carry he definitely needs to get fitted as he hits his driver too high out on the course. His second was not a good shot by him but went

162.7 ball speed 3077 backspin 282.8 carry

Now I did bring my old driver and once our round was over we had some time left so I hit about 6-7 shots with it and could not get that ball speed much over 160 I wasn't paying much attention to anything other than ball speed as I thought it was recording and I was just going to go over the numbers later but it was essentially stuck between 158-162 never got one over that.

https://youtu.be/rXE6cmEPgfo

 

https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-videos/

 

Impressive numbers.   Not bad for a boy from the mitten 😏, where abouts?   I'm from Davison.

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were you always a long hitter ?

or did you see improvement from

equipment and ball speeds from using

technology feed back

 

Does it show up on a real course

my experience shows less than indoor facilities

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2 hours ago, ncates00 said:

Impressive ball speed.  What LM are you running?

Not sure what LM stands for but thank you! 

2 hours ago, dennyjones said:

https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-videos/

 

Impressive numbers.   Not bad for a boy from the mitten 😏, where abouts?   I'm from Davison.

Not far at all I'm from Mayville but the simulator we play on is in Lapeer! Have to meet up for a round sometime this summer... whenever that gets here lol

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