How to Engage with Your Instructor

[xrayvizhen]

When taking lessons , how do you inform him/her about dealing with your specific issues and what do you do if he/she goes off on a tangent and doesn’t address the problem directly?

An Example: A local instructor in my area is well regarded and I decided to go to him to deal with a specific issue I’ve been having and have been unable to solve on my own. (Early release – poor compression  -  the result of an old bicycle injury, since healed). At my first meeting he asked what my situation was. I told him and then he had me hit a few balls with a 7-iron. All’s well and good at that point. I also mentioned to him that I had a series of 3 lessons with an instructor last year and all he had me do was hit short pitch shots over and over and I wanted to address the problem more directly, that I felt that my problem was the result of an improper transition at the top, too much forward hip movement and not enough rotation at the bottom and I wanted to attack those aspects of the swing more directly. He then adjusted my setup and proceeded to give me a series of different drills; short back & forth swipes at a rubber tee, hitting balls with my feet together, short ice hockey-like wrist shots, all of which are not working, at least after two one hour lessons. At two bucks a minute I just don’t feel I’m getting very much bang for the buck. Maybe I’m just impatient.  (For what it’s worth I posted a video of my swing in the “Member Swings” section a few years ago and I haven’t updated it because there hasn’t been one damn thing that’s changed, despite working very hard at it.)

He’s a nice guy and he’s very enthusiastic and encouraging – having me send videos of my practice and him responding that he’s seeing “dynamic progress” whatever that means. But the bottom line is there’s been no improvement and I’m probably going to try to work things out on my own or find another instructor. I realize there’s no one adjustment or magic fix but maybe I should be more direct with what I want? How long do you wait when taking lessons before you disengage with one teacher and look for another?

[criley4way]

I will leave the swing analysis to others. 

For example, I would ask if he/she didn't address the issue or if he/she didn't get  you to understand the goal of the drills in a bigger sense. I find that alignment with an instructor on what the goal is and how you learn is key. I had a chat with my instructor recently and he said that he didn't like to give the rational behind some of the drills because many students didn't stay on track with the program.I told him that I was confused as to the reason and the parts I should be focusing on and that context for me was important. We met in the middle. In the past I ahve had the same conversation and told my instructor that I would do the work and trust him.

I would suggest that you engage and start a conversation. " I don't understand how the drills relate to my goal".

[ncates00]

26 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

When taking lessons , how do you inform him/her about dealing with your specific issues and what do you do if he/she goes off on a tangent and doesn’t address the problem directly?

An Example: A local instructor in my area is well regarded and I decided to go to him to deal with a specific issue I’ve been having and have been unable to solve on my own. (Early release – poor compression  -  the result of an old bicycle injury, since healed). At my first meeting he asked what my situation was. I told him and then he had me hit a few balls with a 7-iron. All’s well and good at that point. I also mentioned to him that I had a series of 3 lessons with an instructor last year and all he had me do was hit short pitch shots over and over and I wanted to address the problem more directly, that I felt that my problem was the result of an improper transition at the top, too much forward hip movement and not enough rotation at the bottom and I wanted to attack those aspects of the swing more directly. He then adjusted my setup and proceeded to give me a series of different drills; short back & forth swipes at a rubber tee, hitting balls with my feet together, short ice hockey-like wrist shots, all of which are not working, at least after two one hour lessons. At two bucks a minute I just don’t feel I’m getting very much bang for the buck. Maybe I’m just impatient.  (For what it’s worth I posted a video of my swing in the “Member Swings” section a few years ago and I haven’t updated it because there hasn’t been one damn thing that’s changed, despite working very hard at it.)

He’s a nice guy and he’s very enthusiastic and encouraging – having me send videos of my practice and him responding that he’s seeing “dynamic progress” whatever that means. But the bottom line is there’s been no improvement and I’m probably going to try to work things out on my own or find another instructor. I realize there’s no one adjustment or magic fix but maybe I should be more direct with what I want? How long do you wait when taking lessons before you disengage with one teacher and look for another?

Does the instructor use video?  He should see what is going on in your swing.  I checked out the swing; you have a nice flowing swing.  I read the advice that @iacas gave you.  He knows his stuff.  Your coach having worked directly with you should see these things too.  I'd sit with him and look at video of your swing and ask him what he sees and what the plan is going forward.  Express your concerns to him and do so in a non-attacking/offending way.  Good coaches won't take offense at this but will appreciate the good questions and desire to improve, provided that you are sincere in your questions.  

[billchao]

36 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

I felt that my problem was the result of an improper transition at the top, too much forward hip movement and not enough rotation at the bottom

I think this is part of your problem. You have your own idea about how to fix your swing so you’re either looking for an instructor to validate it or address what you want directly. I can’t say if the instructors you saw are good or not, but it seems to me that what you have targeted as the priority in your swing is not the same thing @iacas pointed out in your swing thread.

Obviously it’s your time and your money, so if you do want to address anything with your instructor, you should communicate it. He might have a reason for having you work on something else first. But I think you’re going to have to change your attitude about your swing, or you’re probably never going to be satisfied with any golf instructor. Empty your cup.

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, criley4way said:

I would suggest that you engage and start a conversation. " I don't understand how the drills relate to my goal".

This...

Plus

17 minutes ago, billchao said:

I think this is part of your problem. You have your own idea about how to fix your swing so you’re either looking for an instructor to validate it or address what you want directly. I can’t say if the instructors you saw are good or not, but it seems to me that what you have targeted as the priority in your swing is not the same thing @iacas pointed out in your swing thread.

This

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, xrayvizhen said:

that I felt that my problem was the result of an improper transition at the top, too much forward hip movement and not enough rotation at the bottom

Nothing irks me more than a patient who says ‘ Hi...I’ve got bronchitis I caught from my nephew so I need a chest X-ray and some antibiotics.

Not in a ass way.. but I think you may be the problem here.🙂

[Patch]

The bottom line is that the student, and the instructor have to be on the same page. If they are not, nothing positive is going to get done. 

Both have to have patience with each other during the learning process. Both have to trust each other's ability to teach, and learn. 

I don't think the student should not look at the cost of learning. They need to recognize quality before quantity. If the student at anytime feels betrayed in some way, they need to move on, and save their bills. 

By the same token, I think an instructor with integrity, when realizing the student can't learn from them, should tell the student to seek instruction else where. 

A good example is my Granddaughter. She is taking bimonthly lessons on her full swing from our local pro. At one point he was trying get her to do something in her swing that was frustrating her. It took her 4 weekly lessons, plus her own practice time,  to get her on the right track. She stuck with his instruction. Although frustrated, she trusted his instruction.

I also believe her instructor may have been frustrated a little to. He even donated some free time durin those 4 weeks. They both persevered for a positive end result. 

The cost of those 4 weeks of lessons was worth every penny I paid for her to have a better golf game. 

[FlyingAce]

My lessons are usually just 30 mins long. I find it more productive to work on just 1 problem/get 1 tip instead of trying to fix multiple things in one shot. I take my lessons at Golftec, so we got video of everything. My instructor would ask me what club I want to work on that particular day and ask me to hit a few balls without telling him what my problem is. His job is to analyze my swing and note issues on his own. I believe that if he is a good instructor, he should be able to spot issues without me telling him anything. So far, it’s been working out great for us. As for your not getting why he is giving you drills to work on, best to ask him to explain. 

[FlyingAce]

How are you measuring your improvements? Are you practicing the drills that he gave you? How often and for how long before you decided that it wasn’t working? And did you let the instructor know?

My instructor gives me drills that are not directly related to issues at hand, but I practice them anyway. I usually practice for 2 weeks before returning for the next lesson, unless I know for sure something is wrong - as in I am hitting worse than before, then I let him know immediately and stop practicing until he can see me.  I also only practice with one club instead of the whole set, especially when I am trying to fix a specific issue. It takes the variation of length/loft/weight/etc. out of the equation. 

For me, I measure my improvements through a combination of distance, accuracy and score. I don’t go after a perfect swing or a perfect divot, and I have a very weird setup for my driver, but if any of those three are improving, I know my lessons are working. 

I have had 4 instructors so far and the shortest time I spent before switching to someone else was a month. But that was due to a personality/teaching style mismatch. Perhaps you should find someone who can analyze on video. Sometimes the tweak is so small that even the most experienced instructors cannot catch with the naked eye. You can also see your own swing, which is almost never the same as what you think you are doing.

[criley4way]

6 minutes ago, FlyingAce said:

How are you measuring your improvements? Are you practicing the drills that he gave you? How often and for how long before you decided that it wasn’t working? And did you let the instructor know?

My instructor gives me drills that are not directly related to issues at hand, but I practice them anyway. I usually practice for 2 weeks before returning for the next lesson, unless I know for sure something is wrong - as in I am hitting worse than before, then I let him know immediately and stop practicing until he can see me.  I also only practice with one club instead of the whole set, especially when I am trying to fix a specific issue. It takes the variation of length/loft/weight/etc. out of the equation. 

For me, I measure my improvements through a combination of distance, accuracy and score. I don’t go after a perfect swing or a perfect divot, and I have a very weird setup for my driver, but if any of those three are improving, I know my lessons are working. 

I have had 4 instructors so far and the shortest time I spent before switching to someone else was a month. But that was due to a personality/teaching style mismatch. Perhaps you should find someone who can analyze on video. Sometimes the tweak is so small that even the most experienced instructors cannot catch with the naked eye. You can also see your own swing, which is almost never the same as what you think you are doing.

Be CAREFUL of judging progress on swings and swing changes by Score or outcome.

For me this falls into 2 categories: Block and functional practice.

If I have a lesson I try to leave with a clear SMART map of

The drill

 How to set up my practice station (ex. 2 alignment sticks 12 in apart with one for the foot line and the other for the ball start line.

What I am trying to do (Start the ball right of the target on or about the start line and have the ball curve left)

How do I determine that the shot was successful.(good center contact, normal ball flight, draw curve, visual for start line, ball finishes on or left of the target line)

Are there fixes for common mistakes.

What is out of scope for my practice (I don't care about too much draw or distance)

Functional

 Do I have a practice station and if so what is it

What is the feel I want and be sure I know it when I make a swing.

What does success look like

Did I get set up and feel right? Was I committed to my shot and target? Did I have an outcome in mind? How close did I get?

If I am trying to make changes or fixes I go to my lesson with a notebook and write all this down and don't leave until I have a clear map and Ideally video.

[boogielicious]

20 hours ago, billchao said:

I think this is part of your problem. You have your own idea about how to fix your swing so you’re either looking for an instructor to validate it or address what you want directly. I can’t say if the instructors you saw are good or not, but it seems to me that what you have targeted as the priority in your swing is not the same thing @iacas pointed out in your swing thread.

Obviously it’s your time and your money, so if you do want to address anything with your instructor, you should communicate it. He might have a reason for having you work on something else first. But I think you’re going to have to change your attitude about your swing, or you’re probably never going to be satisfied with any golf instructor. Empty your cup.

This^. At first, I would self analyze and read too many ‘tips’ and think that would help. But once I let my instructor give me the one piece, I would work to fix that. To engage them, I will ask about feels and drills to use for that piece. Then I just work on that. When I am able to put in the work, I improve.

20 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Nothing irks me more than a patient who says ‘ Hi...I’ve got bronchitis I caught from my nephew so I need a chest X-ray and some antibiotics.

Not in a ass way.. but I think you may be the problem here.🙂

Doctor, it hurts when I do this.....