How Much Difference Does the Ball Make for Average Player?

[iacas]

1 minute ago, badbeatj said:

Not to argue but you were clear in what you said

Highly unlikely. Virtually every ball is at the limit of ball speed.

And they are. You’re not going to tell the difference between 157 and 160 with a blindfold.

1 minute ago, badbeatj said:

By commenting on what I wrote and starting your conversation in that manner is argumentative and  implies that  15 handicappers can't tell the difference between the 2 balls. 

You might not have meant this and meant you can't tell difference between balls in the same class but what you wrote does not convey that clearly

I’ll stand by everything I’ve written, with the addition above that I thought the balls you were talking about were in the same class.

You’re a 15. You’d have a hard time in a truly “blind” study telling the difference between a range ball and a Pro V1x by just hitting a few balls on the range.

Hell, PGA Tour players can’t tell the difference much there. And 95% of what you think you’re “feeling” is actually the sound. You don’t likely hit the same parts of your club often enough to “feel” the same sounds from the same balls every time. Guaranteed.

But this is beside the point, and so, we shall move on.

---

Average golfers can benefit from premium-level balls. Even if they’re inexpensive like a Snell.

[Shorty]

10 minutes ago, badbeatj said:

 

By commenting on what I wrote and starting your conversation in that manner is argumentative and  implies that  15 handicappers can't tell the difference between the 2 balls. 

You might not have meant this and meant you can't tell difference between balls in the same class but what you wrote does not convey that clearly

 

The bottom line is this:

If there were 100 disguised balls and you had to hit them would you bet your house that you'd  know what ball you hit 90% of the time?

If the answer is "No, I wouldn't bet my house on it.", your initial claim is stated for the sake of conversation only.

[badbeatj]

6 minutes ago, Shorty said:

The bottom line is this:

If there were 100 disguised balls and you had to hit them would you bet your house that you'd  know what ball you hit 90% of the time?

If the answer is "No, I wouldn't bet my house on it.", your initial claim is stated for the sake of conversation only.

Lol what if I'm risk averse? 

What if I would do a $20 bet instead and hit 10 balls and I could guess right 80% of the time? 

 

[Billy Z]

34 minutes ago, iacas said:

Average golfers can benefit from premium-level balls. Even if they’re inexpensive like a Snell.

I agree, and on my last outing it was proven, stopping a low punch into the green from 100+ yards about 10 ft from where the ball mark was. A hop and stop. I got a birdie out of to boot. If a golfer loses balls left and right, it does get quite expensive, but that would most likely occur from a high capper.

[paperclip]

As a mid-capper, I think it matters a lot. It's the difference between having the ball end up where you want on the green or shooting for the front part of the green (no matter where the pin is) and hoping it doesn't keep going and rolling off the back.

[Shorty]

40 minutes ago, paperclip said:

As a mid-capper, I think it matters a lot. It's the difference between having the ball end up where you want on the green or shooting for the front part of the green (no matter where the pin is) and hoping it doesn't keep going and rolling off the back.

I would have to say that what you have stated has categorically NEVER happened. Balls roll off the back because the player has not hit the correct shot, not because he/she has used an inexpensive golf ball.

The golfer controls the ball. The ball does not control the golfer.

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Shorty

[badbeatj]

6 minutes ago, Shorty said:

I would have to say that what you have stated has categorically NEVER happened.

The golfer controls the ball. The ball does not control the golfer.

 

I think both of you are correct. 

The golfer obviously controls the ball but you do have to play approach shots differently depending on whether you are using a ball that spins a lot or little. 

Now that I play premium balls, on 40-60 yard approaches on par 5s, I expect 2-3 hops and check/stop. (if lie was relatively flat). That's hitting it with about 7k back spin. 

If I play a ball like Bridgestone e6, on a 40-60 yard shot, I'm getting like 4k back spin and ball will release past the hole. 

Ofcourse, I don't always hit it with 7k back spin (as I'm mid 80s) and sometimes will misthit and hit it with 3500 back spin and then it goes past the hole but the point is valid that if playing a less premium ball, you obviously have to account for less spin / more release and so, you need to land it shorter. 

Caveat, I say I'm mid 80s but I will soon find out if I've improved when season starts. (still snow on the ground where I am) 

I played about 15 times last year (shooting mid 80s) but I got a golf Sim and have been practicing like 1-2 hours everyday.

I normally break 80 now on courses like TPC Sawgrass, Pebble Beach, Bandon Dunes, Cypress Pointe, Augusta playing from approx 6600-6800 yards

Obviously Sim is not real life as lie is always perfectly flat and I never lose a ball and bunker shots are easy but main thing is, I'm swinging like 1-2 hours a day (in fact I played 4 rounds today) and working from home during covid has made me so much more unproductive with respect to work but I feel like my golf game got a lot better. 

 

[Shorty]

23 minutes ago, badbeatj said:

 

The golfer obviously controls the ball but you do have to play approach shots differently depending on whether you are using a ball that spins a lot or little. 

 

So you agree with me. You make allowances. Not to mention that most players can't spin the ball in a way that helps them anyway. I play with a guy who'll skull his Topflite and yell "Bite! Bite!"

If you are playing greens that are soft, almost any ball will suffice. The green itself helps you to get the ball to stop. 

Statistically, most recreational golfers are short most of the time, so they really don't benefit from backspin anyway.

With firm greens, the ball is going to roll out a lot more no matter what ball you use, so you're better off playing short of the hole and allowing it to run up anyway. Use your distances to work out where the ball will land, not where the pin is.

If you have to go over a bunker, there are times when you'll benefit from a premium ball, but your contact has to be perfect. A pitch that might bite a fair bit with a premium ball is not necessarily impossible with something like a Bridgestone e6.

Balls do not run through greens because they are not ProV1s or whatever.

Course conditions are what determine how a ball rolls out for most mid 80s to 90s shooters.

When people say stuff like "I typically get 6 to 8 feet of backspin", it's just nonsense. Complete lies and BS. It's like saying you "average 290 carry off the tee but typically get 40m of roll". Where? On what course? In what conditions? Does once a year in summer off a cart path mean average? NO.

Likewise, when I hit a wedge 100m and I think I've made great contact and it runs 30 feet the hole past  I blame myself for making a dumb error and aiming at the flag, not 30 feet short of it as the green is firm and you have to play smart golf.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Shorty

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Shorty said:

I would have to say that what you have stated has categorically NEVER happened. Balls roll off the back because the player has not hit the correct shot, not because he/she has used an inexpensive golf ball.

You’d lose that bet.

[pganapathy]

6 hours ago, Shorty said:

I would have to say that what you have stated has categorically NEVER happened. Balls roll off the back because the player has not hit the correct shot, not because he/she has used an inexpensive golf ball.

The golfer controls the ball. The ball does not control the golfer.

 

 

I agree with you to a certain extent.  If you thin/skull a ball, it isn't going to bite unless it plugs.  However, identical good shots with a short iron/wedge and the tour balls will spin a lot more than the hard distance balls.  I know because I have tried it on the course when I am practicing and play two balls

[boogielicious]

10 hours ago, badbeatj said:

Lol what if I'm risk averse? 

What if I would do a $20 bet instead and hit 10 balls and I could guess right 80% of the time? 

 

I get what you are saying, but unless we are testing Pinnacles versus ProVI level balls, it’s hard to differentiate a mishit from a ball. When I hit a Pinnacle at the range or into my net (I sometimes bring balls I find home for my practice collection) I can hear and feel the difference with driver and even irons. But I also have some Taylormade, Bridgestone, Srixon, Vice, Volvik, Callaway etc. balls that feel the same as Snell MTB Black and X and Titleist ProV1 and X. 

It is on the course that matters. ‘How does it play into the green?’ Is most important to me.

[Larrh7]

Titleist 2019 TruFeel Yellow Golf Balls | DICK'S Sporting Goods Has anyone tried these ball? I bought 2 dozen over the winter but have not got them out yet this spring. Been playing last years left overs. 

17 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I would even say that unless you are a Titleist staffer getting paid to play them, you don't need to play Pro V1, since there are comparable balls at half the cost. Lately I have been using Snell MTB-X, Vice Pro Plus, and some Srixon Z-star (that I bought heavily discounted) and they are all good balls as far as I can tell.

A friend of mine will only play Titleist Pro V1. He buys them new, usually at the pro shop before a round at about $50/dozen. He's a 22-25 handicap, and probably loses 4-5 per round. But that's what he likes to play, and there is no convincing him otherwise.

That's the point I'm trying to make. If he has lots of money and want to buy them great.  If he is still 22-25 they aren't helping him improve.  Lot's of good balls made out there for the average handicap guy that will suit them just fine. 

[ChetlovesMer]

Okay, so I'm at the range and decided to conduct a test. Before I start, I want you to know that I am aware this is NOT A SCIENTIFIC TEST. Please don't bag on me because of my little test. Here's what another golfer and I did. We took 3 PROV1's and 3 Titleist Velocity Golf balls. We used a sharpie to cover up the numbers. PROV1's have black numbers, Velocity has red. So, I set up all six balls for him so that he could not tell which ones he was hitting. (Then we repeated the test so that I hit the balls he set up) Anyway, then we each chipped to the a spot on the green with all six balls. 

We were just seeing how quickly we could stop each ball while chipping. Again, not scientific but kinda fun. Even with our lame high handicap skills, we got very consistent results. None of the Velocity balls stopped inside any of the PROV1 balls. We didn't have a tape measure, but it was pretty clear that the Velocity balls rolled out at least twice as far as the PROV1's in our little lame test. For both of us the furthest roll out on the PROV1 was less than the shortest roll out on the Velocities. 

What does out little test mean. Not a hell of a lot. Just neither of us (okay we aren't tour pros) had any idea which ball we just chipped. We thought we'd feel the difference but we really couldn't feel any difference. We COULD however, see the difference. It didn't take long to realize which one you just hit based on how far it rolled out. 

We were going to try other tests. Hit them with irons and drivers, but neither of us is anywhere near consistent enough to have that test mean anything at all. We would almost certainly have no idea. 

My conclusion is this: Yes, you can get used to the roll out from a less premium ball. Yes, it's likely to help you as often as it hurts you. No, off the tee or into the green, I'll probably never be able to see (or feel) a real difference as I dot the ball all over the club face. But for those couple times a round when you are short-sided... The premium ball makes a difference. 

[Larrh7]

14 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Okay, so I'm at the range and decided to conduct a test. Before I start, I want you to know that I am aware this is NOT A SCIENTIFIC TEST. Please don't bag on me because of my little test. Here's what another golfer and I did. We took 3 PROV1's and 3 Titleist Velocity Golf balls. We used a sharpie to cover up the numbers. PROV1's have black numbers, Velocity has red. So, I set up all six balls for him so that he could not tell which ones he was hitting. (Then we repeated the test so that I hit the balls he set up) Anyway, then we each chipped to the a spot on the green with all six balls. 

We were just seeing how quickly we could stop each ball while chipping. Again, not scientific but kinda fun. Even with our lame high handicap skills, we got very consistent results. None of the Velocity balls stopped inside any of the PROV1 balls. We didn't have a tape measure, but it was pretty clear that the Velocity balls rolled out at least twice as far as the PROV1's in our little lame test. For both of us the furthest roll out on the PROV1 was less than the shortest roll out on the Velocities. 

What does out little test mean. Not a hell of a lot. Just neither of us (okay we aren't tour pros) had any idea which ball we just chipped. We thought we'd feel the difference but we really couldn't feel any difference. We COULD however, see the difference. It didn't take long to realize which one you just hit based on how far it rolled out. 

We were going to try other tests. Hit them with irons and drivers, but neither of us is anywhere near consistent enough to have that test mean anything at all. We would almost certainly have no idea. 

My conclusion is this: Yes, you can get used to the roll out from a less premium ball. Yes, it's likely to help you as often as it hurts you. No, off the tee or into the green, I'll probably never be able to see (or feel) a real difference as I dot the ball all over the club face. But for those couple times a round when you are short-sided... The premium ball makes a difference. 

I love test like this. Lot's of fun too.  There is a difference in the top priced balls for sure. I can even tell some when putting them.  I just think it crazy if you are an average golfer to buy them.  I find so many ProV and other expensive balls in the woods when I ball hunt in the fall.  If you don't have a good swing they are not going to help your game . If your club face is open to much you will slice.  I can tell where I find balls a lot of golfers slice.  If you are a good golfer with an excellent swing they are the way to go. 

[Bucki1968]

The ball I use is pretty much the same....I have tried others and found that they are usually not as good or about the same. I think if you find a ball you are comfortable with (and in the price range you want to be in) then that's your ball. I don't change balls based on playing conditions. I'll also be honest, I think the Pro V is the best ball for my game. However, I don't want to spend that money or buy used balls so I found one that is close and I stick with that. I've always believed, "it's not the arrow, it's the Indian".

[saevel25]

52 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

I'll also be honest, I think the Pro V is the best ball for my game. However, I don't want to spend that money or buy used balls so I found one that is close and I stick with that. I've always believed, "it's not the arrow, it's the Indian".

For me, there have been three brands I've played that I concider the the best. 

Titliest Pro-V
Snell MTB
Bridgestone Tour

I use to play Bridgestone for years because Golf Galaxy had a buy 2 get 1 free sale going on. I would buy 4 dozen and get 2 free. 

[GolfLug]

Here's my take as a currently high handicapper (I have been as low as 7 in a different life..). Ball performance is a non-factor for my shit-shots. So granted, a 15 HCPer is doomed no matter the ball on their shit-shots (as would any golfer for that matter...). Never noticed any real difference off driver. 

But even now I do hit 1-2 'proper' short irons, 2-3 clean half wedges and 1-2 clean chips/chiches/pitches a round. In each of these 'successful' shots the distance from the pin that I end up due to reasonable spin and low rollout makes a difference. All said and done I am estimating the premium ball saves me 2 shots, more on some days.

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I use to play Bridgestone for years because Golf Galaxy had a buy 2 get 1 free sale going on. I would buy 4 dozen and get 2 free. 

Wow, completely missed this deal at GG. I should have noticed as many times as I visit there. 

Snell MTB is the perfect price point for me. 

[saevel25]

30 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Wow, completely missed this deal at GG. I should have noticed as many times as I visit there. 

Snell MTB is the perfect price point for me. 

This was years ago, like 7-8 years. Then they stop having that deal. I've been playing MTB since they came out.