How Much Difference Does the Ball Make for Average Player?

[Billy Z]

9 hours ago, Shorty said:

I would have to say that what you have stated has categorically NEVER happened. Balls roll off the back because the player has not hit the correct shot, not because he/she has used an inexpensive golf ball.

The golfer controls the ball. The ball does not control the golfer.

 

 

I have seen it happen to 3 balls in a row, on some very slick greens. 

[Elmer]

10 hours ago, Shorty said:

I play with a guy who'll skull his Topflite and yell "Bite! Bite!"

 

I can confirm that a skulled ball does not bite, regardless of how pricey they are!
I also find the the pricier balls don't listen to my suggestion any more than he cheap ones! 

As a 15 HCP who has access to nearly every brand of ball, I have played everything from Topflite to Titlest.

The reason I don't play proVs is the same as why I don't play blades or player irons. They have the ability to do things I cant do. Spin, shot shaping, etc...

I play Bridgestone E6. They work for the course I play, the price was right (free) and I know when hit them how far past the hole they roll (usually far enough to necessitate a 2 putt)

Edited March 26, 2021 by Elmer
corrected phrasing

[Shorty]

4 hours ago, Billy Z said:

I have seen it happen to 3 balls in a row, on some very slick greens. 

That is about greens and the way the player hit the shots, not balls. Don't be ridiculous.

You are saying that it would not have been possible for Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson to have hit those shots and remain on the green unless they were playing a  premium ball. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Shorty

[Elmer]

18 minutes ago, Shorty said:

That is about greens and the way the player hit the shots, not balls. Don't be ridiculous.

You are saying that it would not have been possible for Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson to have hit those shots and remain on the green unless they were playing a  premium ball. 

I do not disagree with you at all.
I would like to see a visual comparison of Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson hitting premium balls and then top flites. Mostly just to see top level guys hitting top flits and crappy Pinnacles (maybe fished out of a lake).

for the record my father still insists that Top Flites "are not a bad ball" even though he plays ferral Pro V1's 
 

I have to imagine there is some statistical difference between premium and non-premium balls, when used by top players?
Or when you are top level player is it just feel?

[Shorty]

12 minutes ago, Elmer said:

I would like to see a visual comparison of Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson hitting premium balls and then top flites.

It would be interesting. 

@Billy Z believes that they would not be capable of getting the ball to stay on a green when faced with the same shot that his playing partners  who aren't very good players have unless they were using the best quality "tour" ball. I wonder if these were shots from 50, 80 100 or 120 yards.

I would happily bet every cent that I have to prove him wrong.

He essentially has said that the ball has more influence on balls staying on the green than the skill of the person hitting it.

Unbelievable.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Shorty

[Billy Z]

36 minutes ago, Shorty said:

That is about greens and the way the player hit the shots, not balls. Don't be ridiculous.

You are saying that it would not have been possible for Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson to have hit those shots and remain on the green unless they were playing a  premium ball. 

Yes, it is about the greens and the way the golfers hit the ball. What my comment was intendeded to mean was that if you don't hit the ball correctly, or use a surlyn covered ball  your chances are much less to stop the ball then if you were to use a urethane ball, even for a mid-capper. As has been stated, urethane covered golf balls are at very reasonable prices if you look for them. Even a mid Capper should use a urethane ball over a surlyn covered ball to get the most out of his game.

6 minutes ago, Shorty said:

It would be interesting. 

@Billy Z believes that they would not be capable of getting the ball to stay on a green when faced with the same shot that his playing partners  who aren't very good players have unless they were using the best quality "tour" ball. I wonder if these were shots from 50, 80 100 or 120 yards.

I would happily bet every cent that I have to prove him wrong.

He essentially has said that the ball has more influence on balls staying on the green than the skill of the person hitting it.

Unbelievable.

How you reach your farfetch conclusion is beyond me, it seems that you insert thoughts into my comments that weren't meant to be there. I will not bother to reply to your comment any more than what I just said.

[Elmer]

1 hour ago, Shorty said:

It would be interesting. 

@Billy Z believes that they would not be capable of getting the ball to stay on a green when faced with the same shot that his playing partners  who aren't very good players have unless they were using the best quality "tour" ball. I wonder if these were shots from 50, 80 100 or 120 yards.

I would happily bet every cent that I have to prove him wrong.

 

 

1 hour ago, Billy Z said:

Yes, it is about the greens and the way the golfers hit the ball. What my comment was intendeded to mean was that if you don't hit the ball correctly, or use a surlyn covered ball  your chances are much less to stop the ball then if you were to use a urethane ball, even for a mid-capper. As has been stated, urethane covered golf balls are at very reasonable prices if you look for them. Even a mid Capper should use a urethane ball over a surlyn covered ball to get the most out of his game.

How you reach your farfetch conclusion is beyond me, it seems that you insert thoughts into my comments that weren't meant to be there. I will not bother to reply to your comment any more than what I just said.

Is sounds like these 2 could have an interesting wager. As a data geek, I would be interested in results.

Now if we can get some top tier pro player to hit top flites, we got ourselves a pay per view special! 

[Shorty]

5 hours ago, Billy Z said:

How you reach your farfetch conclusion is beyond me, it seems that you insert thoughts into my comments that weren't meant to be there. I will not bother to reply to your comment any more than what I just said.

 

I'll tell you EXACTLY how I reached my farfetch(sic) conclusion.

Paperclip said: 

It's the difference between having the ball end up where you want on the green or shooting for the front part of the green (no matter where the pin is) and hoping it doesn't keep going and rolling off the back.

I said:

I would have to say that what you have stated has categorically NEVER happened. Balls roll off the back because the player has not hit the correct shot, not because he/she has used an inexpensive golf ball.

You said:

I have seen it happen to 3 balls in a row, on some very slick greens. 

I said:

You are saying that it would not have been possible for Tiger Woods or Phil Mickelson to have hit those shots and remain on the green unless they were playing a  premium ball. 

 

This happened this morning and I photographed it because it illustrates the point perfectly.

The pin was 110m from where my ball was. 

I was using a Callaway Diablo because my previous shot was lost in the penalty area - crap ball.

Hitting out of rough, over bunker. Green is usually very firm but we've had horrendous rain for over a week.

My PW is 100m so I thought it was a good number for me.

I had a bit of a flyer lie, but I hit it as high and as hard as I could, thinking that as long as I cleared the bunker I'd be OK. Thought it was perfect in the air.

As you can see, the ball pitched in the right spot but ran all the way through the green (at about 1 o'clock, just right of the flag in the photo.)

Now, it is very possible that a ProV1 might have stayed on, but it didn't go through BECAUSE it was an inferior ball.

My guess is that Tiger and Phil could have got that nasty cheap ball to check up more than I did. I'd bet they could.

I'm not blaming a ball, or behaving as if I was robbed because it was a cheap ball. 

 

 

[iacas]

Once again… back to the topic.

[ChetlovesMer]

I'll try to get this back on topic.

I really don't think premium vs non-premium makes a bit of difference for a mid to high handicapper off the tee, or on approach shots. I also don't believe that a mid to high handicapper can actually feel the difference off the tee or on approach shots. 

Having said that, a premium ball CAN help all golfers close to the green. It can be especially helpful when you are short sided. 

As far as putting goes. I think there are those who can tell the difference. However, as of right now I think you can "learn" to putt any ball and I would say remaining consistent with which ball you choose would be more important than premium vs non-premium. 

 

I think I have to agree with Mark Crossfield on this one. 

[Dunit507]

As far as balls I primarily play the Titleist tru feel. I’ve been playing it so long I don’t know what any other ball is like. I know when I go to the practice green and putt with the range balls there I can immediately tell the difference with a putter. I got a box of pro v for Xmas along with my tru feels and I am going to play a pro v soon and see if I notice a different feel or performance in the two Titleist balls

[badbeatj]

On 3/26/2021 at 1:56 PM, Shorty said:

It would be interesting. 

@Billy Z believes that they would not be capable of getting the ball to stay on a green when faced with the same shot that his playing partners  who aren't very good players have unless they were using the best quality "tour" ball. I wonder if these were shots from 50, 80 100 or 120 yards.

I would happily bet every cent that I have to prove him wrong.

He essentially has said that the ball has more influence on balls staying on the green than the skill of the person hitting it.

Unbelievable.

I think I'm pretty adament about the ball becuase of my experience in the past year. 

I have a Uneekor Qed simulator. 

It ships with dotted Bridgestone E6s. (there's dots on the ball to properly calculate spin). 

When playing easy courses and soft Greens, it doesn't really matter whether I use Bridgestone or premium. 

But on courses like Augusta, firm fast Greens, even if you land it close, the roll out will be ridiculous and will most likely be a 2 putt. 

If you are a mid 80s player and on the wrong side of a slope on the green, then it most likely means a 3 putt. 

Being frustrated playing Augusta is why I ordered these vinyl dots that I can stick on a pro v1. 

I then saw first hand how much difference a ball makes. 

Every round, with a pro v1, I stick at least 2 balls within 6-8 ft of the pin which was impossible with Bridgestone E6 unless I was lucky with how it rolled out. 

It also helps that I'm able to look at the full ball data including ball speed, launch angle and back spin / side spin.

There is definitely a difference. 

 

 

 

 

[iacas]

You can’t really base opinions on a simulator.

[badbeatj]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

You can’t really base opinions on a simulator.

Haha

I'm waiting for season to start to test it out in real life. 

I'm only going by consistent launch monitor numbers. 

On wedge shots 100-120 yards

Premium balls spin at over 10k while the E6 spins at 7-8k

When I see the reaction of the ball on a green (in simulator) , it's also very different. 

Who knows, maybe in real life it'll be the same... 

I'll report back in a few weeks. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shorty]

2 hours ago, badbeatj said:

There is definitely a difference. 

You are essentially playing a video game. Nothing wrong with that, but real golf is played on a golf course.

[Billy Z]

39 minutes ago, badbeatj said:

Haha

I'm waiting for season to start to test it out in real life. 

I'm only going by consistent launch monitor numbers. 

On wedge shots 100-120 yards

Premium balls spin at over 10k while the E6 spins at 7-8k

When I see the reaction of the ball on a green (in simulator) , it's also very different. 

Who knows, maybe in real life it'll be the same... 

I'll report back in a few weeks. 

 

 

 

 

 

I just played 18 with and e6, pretty good non-urethane ball, but just doesn't have the same spin performance on the greens. It's good off my driver, fw's, irons, but doesn't hold quite as well on the putting surface. I'm using them now because it's the off season, but like PV1's, Chrome softs, Zstars, etc.

[badbeatj]

1 hour ago, Shorty said:

You are essentially playing a video game. Nothing wrong with that, but real golf is played on a golf course.

Ok

I don't want to take away from the point or topic of this thread. 

Are you saying the ball does or doesn't matter for a mid 80s player? 

If it doesn't matter, at what point does it start mattering? 

[Shorty]

35 minutes ago, badbeatj said:

Ok

I don't want to take away from the point or topic of this thread. 

Are you saying the ball does or doesn't matter for a mid 80s player? 

If it doesn't matter, at what point does it start mattering? 

Generally speaking, I'd say If you can afford it, play the ProV1 or similar top level ball.

You will notice  a difference. More likely in feel on some shots but not in scoring.

It starts mattering when you are good enough hit low pitch shots with the intent of getting aggressive bite. But, obviously they are better for all shots. Good shots with them don't become bad shots with others which are technically inferior or less popular. Just stay away from the really hard cheapies.

From an aesthetic point of view, you'll even notice that the cheaper Titleists look as cheap as any cheap ball. ProV1s look fantastic - great paint and fine script for the logo.

But........my point is, if you shoot in the mid 80s on a decent golf course (not a simulator), you will not be DISADVANTAGED by using something like a Bridgestone e6.

No-one walks off a golf course and says they would have shot x shots better than they did if only they'd played a better ball.

You might find a mid range ball that you really like. 

For example, I absolutely HATE the Srixon AD333. But I think the Q Star is pretty good and the Z star REALLY good.

As others have said, find a ball and stick to it because you'll learn how it performs and hit shots accordingly.

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Shorty