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4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Thanks for the reference. I on my mobile right now and downloaded the app. Unfortunately when I search "lift, clean, and place rule" in the app, it takes me right to where I was(14.1 which states it must be marked). It doesn't have a click through or anything else like an appendix nearby. Maybe the website is different or maybe I am searching improperly, but I thought that "lift, clean, and place" would be the best search term and it shows nothing on the local rule. Not trying to place blame, just sharing my experience with the app. Hopefully the rest of it works better. 

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Just now, Bonvivant said:

Thanks for the reference. I on my mobile right now and downloaded the app. Unfortunately when I search "lift, clean, and place rule" in the app, it takes me right to where I was(14.1 which states it must be marked). It doesn't have a click through or anything else like an appendix nearby. Maybe the website is different or maybe I am searching improperly, but I thought that "lift, clean, and place" would be the best search term and it shows nothing on the local rule. Not trying to place blame, just sharing my experience with the app. Hopefully the rest of it works better. 

Yeah, you can't really search terms like that because it generally has to be exact.

14.1 isn't what applies here, as others have pointed out. This assumes that the ball is being replaced on its spot.

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Just now, iacas said:

Yeah, you can't really search terms like that because it generally has to be exact.

14.1 isn't what applies here, as others have pointed out. This assumes that the ball is being replaced on its spot.

So what would I search to find it? I want to have a good understanding of the app so if I need it out on the course I'll be more effective and fast about getting to what I need

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3 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

So what would I search to find it? I want to have a good understanding of the app so if I need it out on the course I'll be more effective and fast about getting to what I need

I can’t answer that for every possible rules question. Become familiar with the RoG and you’ll become better at knowing where to look and how to search.

Lift, Clean, and Place isn’t a standard method of play. So, Local Rules.

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Just now, iacas said:

I can’t answer that for every possible rules question. Become familiar with the RoG and you’ll become better at knowing where to look and how to search.

I just don't even know where to start. I tried "local rule lift clean place" and it returns the same result. I guess I'll just read the whole thing. I know I need to anyway. I'm just disappointed in the app if I search an exact term of what I want and it returns something different. Sorry for all the comments.

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2 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

I'm just disappointed in the app if I search an exact term of what I want and it returns something different.

“What you want” might not appear in the text.

Also,

F01137EC-F324-4D6E-BBD0-C482DCBF7CD7.jpeg

Let’s move on now.

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Google (and others) search isn't a reliable way to find up-to-date Rules information.

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2 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

I just don't even know where to start. I tried "local rule lift clean place" and it returns the same result. I guess I'll just read the whole thing. I know I need to anyway. I'm just disappointed in the app if I search an exact term of what I want and it returns something different. Sorry for all the comments.

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/committee-procedures/8e

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=cp&section=rule

You want 8E and specifically E-3

Edited by Rulesman
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29 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

I eventually found it, but their app did an abysmal job of finding what I needed. If I typed in winter, the first 5-7 items cite the word winner instead. Once I was told I needed to scroll down to find the word I searched, I found it. You'd think they would put the best match of the search at the top, instead of trying to correct a spelling error that isn't an error (that stuff could go below).

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21 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

I eventually found it, but their app did an abysmal job of finding what I needed. If I typed in winter, the first 5-7 items cite the word winner instead. Once I was told I needed to scroll down to find the word I searched, I found it. You'd think they would put the best match of the search at the top, instead of trying to correct a spelling error that isn't an error (that stuff could go below).

This is something you'll learn to do better, the more you work through questions like this, and learn to use the rule book.  Its not perfect, and the search feature could work better, but its not all that "abysmal".  Yeah, you might have to scroll down to the 9th entry to find what you wanted, but its there if you persevere a bit.

In this case, it helps to know that "lift clean and place" is NOT part of the standard Rules of Golf.  Once you know that, you can start to look at the Local Rules, and figure out which of the subheadings it would fall under.  

Prior to the current version of the rules, the look-up feature on the cell phone was much more limited, and I don't think you could get the Decisions without paying for them.  I learned a whole lot about the rules by leafing through the Rules of Golf book (on paper!) that the USGA sent me every year.

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5 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

This is something you'll learn to do better, the more you work through questions like this, and learn to use the rule book.

Prior to the current version of the rules, the look-up feature on the cell phone was much more limited, and I don't think you could get the Decisions without paying for them.  I learned a whole lot about the rules by leafing through the Rules of Golf book (on paper!) that the USGA sent me every year.

Thanks. I would like to have a paper copy as well at some point but I'll be learning to use the app for now. 

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2 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

Thanks. I would like to have a paper copy as well at some point but I'll be learning to use the app for now. 

Just go order a few paper ones. Or email your local golf association, or your home course, etc.

Read one rule for every calendar day: rule 1 on day 1, etc. Spend the rest of the month reviewing Definitions, etc.

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Absolutely agree with other contributors. To get a better understanding of layout and where to look for answers and matters of detail, you'd best spend some quality time with the hard copy and that will set you up to get much better use of the phone app. Trying to get familiar with the rules with only the phone would make the task many times longer than starting with real thing.

11 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Hmm. Hardly a small object in comparison with the examples given.

Interesting though.

Indeed. But the focus is being put on artificial rather than small, which is good to know.

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Hmmm, I find it disconcerting that the software appears to lump together posts on the basis of the time clock, resulting in utterly unrelated issues being joined up. If there's a way around that, I haven't discovered it yet.

 

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1 hour ago, fredf said:

Hmmm, I find it disconcerting that the software appears to lump together posts on the basis of the time clock, resulting in utterly unrelated issues being joined up. If there's a way around that, I haven't discovered it yet.

 

What are you referring to, posts being combined?

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15 hours ago, Asheville said:

When must a ball be marked?
    A.    When playing "lift, clean and place".
    B.    When taking relief from a cart path.
    C.    When lifted because it interferes with another player’s line-of-play.

As many of you correctly answered C is the only "must."

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All right, last one on ball-markers. 🙂

A ball-marker may be placed?
    A.    Immediately behind the ball.
    B.    Immediately in front of the ball.
    C.    Immediately to the side of the ball.
    D.    All of the above.
 

"Age improves with wine."
 
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