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What is Open in Ohio?


mcanadiens
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I agree with @mcanadiens here, but also understand that circumstances are quite odd at the moment. I don't mind losing a chunk of my year of membership if CoD courses continue to remain open. However, if this situation ends up being the death nail, and they never reopen, I'll be quite pissed at them for taking my money and not providing the service, or even keeping it available for the future. Think I might go up suicide hill tomorrow (number 12 on hills) and just see how many shots it takes me to get a hole in one lol. Maybe 30 balls and 3 clubs.....and of course a top notch pitch repair tool, although I will probably only need it 30% of the balls.

For reference, tee is on top of the hill, hole is 170 yards (out of frame dead right of camera) but plays 130. A short 7 iron for me without wind.

hole 12.jpg

Edited by Bonvivant
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I really am not worried about the $$$. I am worried about the courses getting shut down permanently from the lack of revenue. Hopefully they will open back up with or without precautions in June. At the moment I just want to put some full swings on a ball. This is far worse than winter in Ohio

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52 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:
I paid money to the City of Dayton in exchange for the ability to play on six specific golf course. They have failed to provide those golf courses. It is most definitely a contract under definition b.

Please show me the legal contract tot signed where they guaranteed they’d be open for you to play on whatever days you wish.

C’mon. You don’t have a legal leg to stand on here.

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19 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

I really am not worried about the $$$. I am worried about the courses getting shut down permanently from the lack of revenue. Hopefully they will open back up with or without precautions in June. At the moment I just want to put some full swings on a ball. This is far worse than winter in Ohio

This is what I’m worried about too

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6 minutes ago, Slim_Pivot said:

This is what I’m worried about too

City of Dayton golf is particularly scary with the report that came out early this year. If this lasts 4-6 months it could cripple them beyond repair

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

On the bright side, golf in March and some parts of April are almost "bonus" golf for PA and OH. And if they're closed, they're not paying much in wages…

Depends how cold you are willing to go. I have 14 rounds in this year, including 3 within the first week of January. If you are talking about the sogginess, then that is a different story and completely understandable.

Edit*

Our courses don't pay too much in wages as far as I know. Lots of volunteer starters/mowers.

Edited by Bonvivant
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Just now, Bonvivant said:

City of Dayton golf is particularly scary with the report that came out early this year. If this lasts 4-6 months it could cripple them beyond repair

The city courses have been kept afloat by taxpayer money for years. They’re pretty so-so courses. I will likely play homestead mostly this year. Longer drive, but course conditions are much nicer. 

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10 minutes ago, iacas said:

Please show me the legal contract tot signed where they guaranteed they’d be open for you to play on whatever days you wish.

C’mon. You don’t have a legal leg to stand on here.

I'm not invested enough in this to dig up the form I signed and honestly I'm not sure I still have a copy anyway. I'll conceded there is a line in the form I signed to the effect of "when the courses are available". Normally, that would mean a course might be occupied by some sort of outing or event. There are most certainly arguments they could make. I'm not really confident that I would win a theoretical lawsuit.

Please do concede that this is a contract.

I think it is a reasonable point that many golf courses are open. The fact that no effort has been made to make the courses available is a reasonable point of contention.

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1 minute ago, CarlSpackler said:

The city courses have been kept afloat by taxpayer money for years. They’re pretty so-so courses. I will likely play homestead mostly this year. Longer drive, but course conditions are much nicer. 

They operated 50k over budget last year, hardly a big number for a city with a population of 160k. I would much rather pay <$10 a round for our city courses (Madden/Hawk/Eagle aren't in that bad of shape) than only get 1 course for double or triple the price. For me, the course condition really isn't that important. I love the layout of Hills and Dales, although the Emerald Ash Borer made them play completely different, and the Falcon is a fun track too for when you only have 2 hours. Sure, the bunkers are abysmal and Dales tends to get flooded with the slightest rain, but these are small prices to pay for courses that are more than affordable with the passes. If you are using a cart and not getting the pass, then sure, they are overpriced (same price as Aston Oaks in North Bend which is kept in great shape)

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5 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

They operated 50k over budget last year, hardly a big number for a city with a population of 160k.

How many privately owned golf courses would stay in business with that much of a deficit?

6 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

(Madden/Hawk/Eagle aren't in that bad of shape)

despicable me what GIF

They're covered with crabgrass and clover. As you mentioned, the bunkers are deplorable at all the courses. I will concede that the greens are kept very nice, but the patrons are terrible at repairing pitch marks. They tend to look like a teenager's face.

10 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

the Falcon is a fun track too for when you only have 2 hours

I heard that this course is on the chopping block along with Madden.

Honestly, the city is saving money (losing less money) with the courses closed if you want to look at it that way.

15 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Please do concede that this is a contract.

I think it is a reasonable point that many golf courses are open. The fact that no effort has been made to make the courses available is a reasonable point of contention.

Contract or agreement, you can call it what you like. You bought the right to play the course "when it is open". You are not allowed to play it at night when it is closed, right? They can easily justify the closure for public safety even though others have chosen to stay open. I know it sucks, but hopefully they will open soon.

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5 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

How many privately owned golf courses would stay in business with that much of a deficit?

despicable me what GIF

They're covered with crabgrass and clover. As you mentioned, the bunkers are deplorable at all the courses. I will concede that the greens are kept very nice, but the patrons are terrible at repairing pitch marks. They tend to look like a teenager's face.

I heard that this course is on the chopping block along with Madden.

Honestly, the city is saving money (losing less money) with the courses closed if you want to look at it that way.

I think that you missed the point that they aren't operating at a heavy deficit currently. Crab grass and clover don't bother me one bit. Bad lies make the game more fun IMO, and I get that for some people they want it to be as close to perfect as possible. The pitch mark thing is pretty bad, but I make it a habit to repair ones that I see, or even get the whole green if it is a slow/full day of patrons.

All of the times I have been at Madden recently, it has been in pretty good shape. Definitely the front runner for course conditions IMO. Eagle has something going on with 12-13 I think, but before that, I was enjoying the sandy turf thoroughly. I guess agree to disagree on what course conditions are acceptable. I think that if they just went no bunkers (let grass grow long, say 1 to 2 feet, where the bunkers were), they would be lovely courses.

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12 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Contract or agreement, you can call it what you like. You bought the right to play the course "when it is open". You are not allowed to play it at night when it is closed, right? They can easily justify the closure for public safety even though others have chosen to stay open. I know it sucks, but hopefully they will open soon.

Indeed Aside from a lawyer costing me 30 times or more what it's worth, they got their arguments. Political climate what it is, I'm hosed.

That said, "easily justify" rings hollow to me. They do the very minimal things so many other courses have done and I get my value.

 

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19 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

I think that you missed the point that they aren't operating at a heavy deficit currently.

Are you saying that losing $50K a year is not bad? Any other course, and many have, would close at running any deficit. If the owner is not making a little money, why do all the work? I guess I'm confused at what you are saying.

I don't expect perfect conditions, because I don't have that much money. I actually have too many other hobbies like my Harley, but it brings me much joy.

17 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

I'm hosed.

Pretty much, yes.

I got this in my email from the City...

image.png

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2 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Are you saying that losing $50K a year is not bad? Any other course, and many have, would close at running any deficit. If the owner is not making a little money, why do all the work? I guess I'm confused at what you are saying.

I don't expect perfect conditions, because I don't have that much money. I actually have too many other hobbies like my Harley, but it brings me much joy.

For something that is run by the government, yes, this isn't bad at all. It's a really nice thing that the golf course offers, including lots of green space that isn't occupied by more people/traffic. If each resident of Dayton has to pay $0.33 dollars more in property tax to keep them open, then I think that's a pretty fair trade.

Ride a Harley eh? You should be used to poor (riding) conditions🤣 (BTW I am just kidding, I've got a Sportster myself and lately it's been a saving grace with everything closed) 

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@Bonvivant and @CarlSpackler, They had a decent year last year. They've had a lot of bad years prior to that and there is a lot of maintenance that they've deferred.

Kittyhawk got the shaft worst of all. The entire irrigation system should have been replaced years ago. They redid Community and let Kittyhawk go to hell. The thing Madden has working for it is that it gets the least rounds out of all of them. Fewer hackers chewing it up.

Community gets the most rounds, the most revenue.

Madden gets the least.

It'll be a whole lot of politics that saves Madden, which leaves my course to take it up the but yet again.

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1 minute ago, mcanadiens said:

@Bonvivant and @CarlSpackler, They had a decent year last year. They've had a lot of bad years prior to that and there is a lot of maintenance that they've deferred.

Kittyhawk got the shaft worst of all. The entire irrigation system should have been replaced years ago. They redid Community and let Kittyhawk go to hell. The thing Madden has working for it is that it gets the least rounds out of all of them. Fewer hackers chewing it up.

Community gets the most rounds, the most revenue.

Madden gets the least.

It'll be a whole lot of politics that saves Madden, which leaves my course to take it up the but yet again.

Per course, Madden makes more than Kittyhawk.

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1 minute ago, Bonvivant said:

Per course, Madden makes more than Kittyhawk.

I'll take your word for that. But, when you treat a place like the red-headed stepchild what do you expect.

 

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