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1 hour ago, Shorty said:

See.. I don't think this is a sad story at all. Stories like these are necessary to make people realise the importance of getting the vaccine. People often need first hand experience of tragedy to motivate them to really analyse what they're doing. Their stupidity serves as an example that may save the lives of some of their friends. And.... they can no longer infect others. They might have infected vulnerable people. Or strong and healthy people.

I'm not feeling sorry for anyone who is suspicious of the usefulness of parachutes and chooses to take the risk by jumping out of a plane.

It's sad for the loved ones who tried to educate them, but it is essentially rolling the dice on suicide. Their choice. They had ample information. They chose to ignore it. These people disrespect scientists and educators. They read nonsense and believe that over clear evidence. Selfishness has consequences and in the year 2021 when uneducated people don't trust science where there is irrefutable proof of the success of the vaccines they have to live and die by their decisions. These are not innocent people who have been denied information. They are not victims. 

I know that's harsh, but it's true. I don't want anti-vaxers anywhere near me and you certainly don't want them near your elderly parents, kids and grandkids.


1 hour ago, iacas said:

Oh come on. A guy still died, a guy with a family, etc. It can be sad that someone was dumb or made a mistake, because a child still lost his or her parent or his or her grandparent.

So is choosing to get in the car to drive somewhere. Or almost anything else we do in life, to varying degrees.

Why am I coming down on you despite agreeing for the most part? Because when you take outrageous stances like this, it makes us all look bad. Uncaring. Evil.

I think you are both right to some degree. 
We've had a ton of discussion around this house about it. For obvious reasons. 
For the gentleman who died. He said it himself. It was his choice. Would he have made a different choice had he know the outcome? Of course he would have. Only a fool wouldn't. I can understand not feeling sorry for him. Personally, I feel sorry for him. He was misinformed. He put his trust in the wrong somebody and made a mistake that cost him his life. 

I, however, REALLY feel bad for the grandkids. They are school age kids, but too young to be vaccinated just yet. They may wonder for the rest of their lives. "Geez, if I hadn't hugged grandpa, would he have lived?" ..."If we had just waited a couple weeks until the kids' vaccine was available?" 

The point I am really trying to get across is when somebody says "It's my choice. I'm only hurting myself if I'm wrong." That's bullshit! Those grandkids may wonder for ever if they could have done something differently. His daughter will wonder "If I had told dad he can't come see the grandkids until he's vaccinated, would he still be here?" 

Everyone he left behind has to deal with thoughts of whether or not THEY did something wrong. Just because HE chose to listen to Facebook instead of his doctor. So, yes, it's his choice. But he's not only hurting himself even if he's the only one who had to go to the hospital. Even if he's the only one who dies. That's a rotten legacy of guilt to leave your family. 

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Say a prayer for our state:

From M-Live:

Michigan reported 15,385 new COVID-19 cases, about 7,693 a day, and 351 deaths on Tuesday, Dec. 7 and Wednesday, Dec. 8.

Over the last seven days, Michigan reported an average of 7,203 new, reported cases and 108 new deaths. These are up from 5,980 new cases per day and 71 deaths a week ago.

State data, last updated Friday, Dec. 3, shows 65.8% of residents 12 and older have received at least a single dose of COVID-19 vaccine.

The state is now seeing the greatest number of hospitalized COVID-19 patients since the start of the pandemic. Previous highs were set in the spring of 2020.

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So like we all said this spring if more people had been vaccinated it would have slowed the spread and reduced the chances of variants.

The virus doesn’t last as long or spread as easily and the effects are lesser in vaccinated.

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1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Well, that settles it.  I'm going out and get myself unvaccinated!

Yeah, According to Ron Johnson (Senator - WI) you just need to gargle with mouthwash!   If you want to get unvaccinated just remember that you'll start to misplace your car keys again because they won't stick to your forehead.

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3 hours ago, colin007 said:

Any data from Moderna? Apparently, most of the omicron cases thus far have been vaccinated people.

If that's true (not saying it is), remember to consider that the majority of people are vaccinated. And that's before you consider how bad the symptoms are, etc.

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4 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

@colin007  Can you provide a source for that???

You can Google stuff you know. 🙂


The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said that of the 43 cases attributed to the Omicron variant, 34 people had been fully vaccinated.

Six hours ago. 43 cases only, so a small sample size.

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1 hour ago, WilliamB said:

Pfizer, Moderna are makng a fortune:


The company said its vaccine generated $3.5 billion in revenue in the first three months of this...


Yep William B, it's the American way... do you support capitalism?  They made a valuable product and there was high demand.  So what?  You should try to do the  same.  Hopefully you got yourself some of dat valuable stuff...

P.S. - What did you pay for your vaccines?  If you got them...

Edited by Double Mocha Man
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Listen, I am not a fan of the bad side of big Pharma. Like, when it goes bad, it's really bad.

In this case, with the time frame, the pressure of trying to save as many lives as possible. I am all for them getting compensated for their work. I am not sure how much it cost them to develop this vaccine, and keep the production up this much, but 3.5 billion in revenue doesn't mean they get all 3.5 billion in profit. 

I understand some people don't like the idea of people making money off the illness of others, but its more they make money on improving the quality of life, and in a lot of cases saving lives. 


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2 hours ago, WilliamB said:

Pfizer, Moderna are makng a fortune:


And there has never been a better justification for the profit motive. Capitalism works a lot of the time, you know.

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