Do You Count It as a Hole-Out if Your Approach Hits a Raised Cup?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Patch said:

Everyone I know are counting them as hole outs,  per our league secretary, and his interpretation of the current, adjusted rules. 

They shouldn't be; he's interpreting the current rules incorrectly. There has to be judgment applied, not just "did it hit the raised cup liner" or something like that.

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

I’m really surprised that some clubs/courses are still doing that. The pool noodle thing really works well, as does anything that allows the ball to go into the cup but limits how far down it goes.

The foam noodle can still bounce a ball out that would have been holed.

What I haven't liked at all was these at Southern Pines:

Wooden discs, that sometimes were slanted sideways, and could bounce even a very slow rolling ball back out.

WW was first to do the raised cup liners, but has since switched to inverted cups.

29 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

I think if it hits the raised cup and doesn't bounce too far away. Sure. Screamers oh hell no. Why don't they just flip the cups upside down? At least you still have a "hole" to putt into.

It can't just hit the raised cup liner, either - that expands the hole to almost 6". If the left edge of the ball just nicks the right edge of a raised cup liner, the center of the ball was 3/4" from the edge of the hole.

[WillieT]

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

The foam noodle can still bounce a ball out that would have been holed.

Funny that did happened to me the last time the missus and I played....was a little longer putt around 15' or so, I had plenty of speed, ball went in on the right side of the flagstick, hit the foam, took a little bounce and rolled out about a foot.  I took it as a made putt and moved to the next hole.  Bad thing was a few holes later I had a similar looking putt and began to question ball speed to prevent bounce out again....missed the putt, bogeyed the hole.  

[burr]

Been playing same course since this life has changed but also have had a mild winter and been playing thru the times too.  We have used the pool noodle (not the raised cup) and it seems to be a perfect solution, no complaints.  But I now realize (or have adapted) that playing with the flag in makes no difference after you get used to it and if conditions ever go back, I'll probably not pull a flag again.  It seems I actually focus better and maybe judge the distance better, or something.  Flag has not come into play at any time so far, probably 12 or more rounds at least.  One weirdness about leaving the flag in is when your putt aligns perfectly with the shadow cast by the stick.  Windy conditions may be a small distraction too but not much effect on the stroke, to me anyway.  and it speeds play noticeably.

[David in FL]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

The foam noodle can still bounce a ball out that would have been holed.

 

Yep.

What surprised me, is how seldom it happens though. Like I said, I’ve probably seen 1500 putts in the last five weeks, and we’ve only even questioned a very small handful of them. Certainly less than a dozen. I don’t think that there were more than two or three that we actually did consider to be holed even though they didn’t actually end up in the cup.  The key is that the noodle needs to be cut such that it’s an inch and a half or so below the surface of the green.  High enough to get the benefit from having it there, but not so high that it’s likely to kick the ball out.

Certainly better than any other options I’ve seen.

Edited May 2, 2020 by David in FL

[Buckeyebowman]

7 hours ago, billchao said:

You can also have a glancing blow that can be considered a hole out, too. I saw a couple today, it just has to be going slowly enough. It's pretty easy to judge.

I figure it has to be on the high side of the hole and not the low side. 

[billchao]

27 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I figure it has to be on the high side of the hole and not the low side. 

Not necessarily. A putt and curl around the lip and drop in on the low side, too.

[Double Mocha Man]

3 minutes ago, billchao said:

Not necessarily. A putt and curl around the lip and drop in on the low side, too.

You have to use your own best, honest judgment. There will be no replays and the boys in New York will not review the putt and make the decision for you.

[Papa Steve 55]

Not to hijack a thread but maybe not worth its own....

I'm mentally thinking about how to put together a cup liner that would sit inside and be on some kind of line anchored to to the flag that you can lift out. The ball falls in, you use you putter to lift the liner up, the stick would be the guide. I'm not MacGyver enough to work it all out....

Edited May 5, 2020 by Papa Steve 55

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

Not to hijack a thread but maybe not worth its own....

I'm mentally thinking about how to put together a cup liner that would sit inside and be on some kind of line anchored to to the flag that you can lift out. The ball falls in, you use you putter to lift the liner up, the stick would be the guide. I'm not MacGyver enough to work it all out....

Gotta be careful about that mental thinking.  Someone beat you to it.  https://golfadvisor.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/147d4b9/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1206x720+37+0/resize/1440x860!/format/jpg/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgolfadvisor.brightspotcdn.com%2F62%2Feb%2Fee990aa44412af9b5d8172ee353b%2Fk8l5xj.gif

Edited May 5, 2020 by Double Mocha Man

[Darkfrog]

6 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Gotta be careful about that mental thinking.  Someone beat you to it.  https://golfadvisor.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/147d4b9/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1206x720+37+0/resize/1440x860!/format/jpg/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgolfadvisor.brightspotcdn.com%2F62%2Feb%2Fee990aa44412af9b5d8172ee353b%2Fk8l5xj.gif

Dang, I just made a crappy rough sketch of the idea. That would be neat to have with or without COVID-19.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

Dang, I just made a crappy rough sketch of the idea. That would be neat to have with or without COVID-19.

Maybe if the mechanism was internal. Right now the side with the red line isn't circular.

[Buckeyebowman]

2 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

Dang, I just made a crappy rough sketch of the idea. That would be neat to have with or without COVID-19.

This is a great idea, and I can see it becoming standard on lots of golf courses eventually. I used to get pissed off at the older guys with creaky backs who'd dig around in the hole with their putter heads to get their ball out. They'd eventually break down the rim of the hole. Also, with the heightened awareness of other peoples "germiness", I can see some people being unwilling to touch a flagstick ever again. 

[Darkfrog]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

2 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

 

Maybe if the mechanism was internal. Right now the side with the red line isn't circular.

Right, the entire mechanism should be in the guts of the flagstick if it were going to be a permanent  device. 

8 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

dig around in the hole with their putter heads to get their ball out

Exactly, that’s why I think it would be useful with/without the pandemic. That sort of thing bugs me too, although I’d wager a lot people don’t care either. 

[billchao]

8 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

Right, the entire mechanism should be in the guts of the flagstick if it were going to be a permanent  device. 

Well what happens after COVID-19 and people want to pull the flagstick and drop it on the green? Will that disc part cause damage?

[Papa Steve 55]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Gotta be careful about that mental thinking.  Someone beat you to it.  https://golfadvisor.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/147d4b9/2147483647/strip/true/crop/1206x720+37+0/resize/1440x860!/format/jpg/quality/90/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgolfadvisor.brightspotcdn.com%2F62%2Feb%2Fee990aa44412af9b5d8172ee353b%2Fk8l5xj.gif

That is nice.  in my mind the ball was going to come up a couple feet and you could take it from the cup insert. Too much touching I suppose vs picking the ball up off the green. I like the internal mechanism idea, no chance of the parts affecting the ball on a bounce.

2 minutes ago, billchao said:

Well what happens after COVID-19 and people want to pull the flagstick and drop it on the green? Will that disc part cause damage?

I suppose handing the flag etiquette will change post 19 as well. 

[Buckeyebowman]

19 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

 

Exactly, that’s why I think it would be useful with/without the pandemic. That sort of thing bugs me too, although I’d wager a lot people don’t care either. 

I think it might depend upon the age group surveyed. A buddy of mine actually got the idea that the pros played to bigger cups than we did, because that's how they looked on TV! I told him no.The size of a golf hole is, or is supposed to be, 4 1/4 inches! The pros play to freshly cut holes every day. We do not! I've played course with hole locations a week old! 

9 minutes ago, billchao said:

Well what happens after COVID-19 and people want to pull the flagstick and drop it on the green? Will that disc part cause damage?

No more than the boneheads who don't repair their ball marks! Or drag their feet like slew-footed hippos on the greens!  Besides, I've played on some courses that had discs attached to the flagsticks near the bottom of the hole. This would allow oldsters to get their ball out of the hole without bending over, but they would still have to touch the flagstick to pull it and get their ball out. Didn't seem to be any more damaging to the greens. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Buckeyebowman

[billchao]

5 minutes ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

I suppose handing the flag etiquette will change post 19 as well.

I'm going back to pulling the pin inside of 25' as soon as this is over.

3 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

No more than the boneheads who don't repair their ball marks! 

Ok, so now the boneheads will do twice as much damage to the greens. That's not helpful.

[Darkfrog]

11 minutes ago, billchao said:

Well what happens after COVID-19 and people want to pull the flagstick and drop it on the green? Will that disc part cause damage?

Good point, I didn’t think about that because I never pull the flag unless the group I’m with prefers that. The disc would have to have some sort of spring/tension device that collapsed it like an umbrella when the flagstick was removed, and opened it when inserted again. It would have to be pretty sturdy to survive the abuse flagsticks get at munis, at least the ones I play.