Jump to content
IGNORED

Billy Casper - Anchored Putter?


Archie Bunker
 Share

Note: This thread is 826 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, Archie Bunker said:

Fast forward to the 54:20 mark on the first video (Casper vs Saunders) to see Billy explain his stroke. Anchoring or not? You be the judge.

His forearms don't seem to move but I am certainly not convinced that they were anchored to his thighs. His forearms do not appear to be fixed to his thighs or body.

In fact I'm pretty sure his left elbow moves.

 

Edit: In the last video it seemed that Caper's right elbow was always clear of his body

Edited by Rulesman
Link to comment
Share on other sites


20 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

His forearms don't seem to move but I am certainly not convinced that they were anchored to his thighs. His forearms do not appear to be fixed to his thighs or body.

In fact I'm pretty sure his left elbow moves.

 

Edit: In the last video it seemed that Caper's right elbow was always clear of his body

See his right elbow at about 10.44 in the last video

Edited by Rulesman
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • 2 weeks later...

I'm confused. Here's a photo of Casper and the anchoring rules. This isn't permitted?

 

Casper Anchor.jpg

Driver: Ping K15 10°, Mitsubishi Diamana Blueboard 63g Stiff
Fairway 4-wood: TaylorMade RocketBallz Tour TP 17.5°, Matrix Ozik TP7HD S shaft

Hybrids: Callaway Diablo Edge 3H-4H, Aldila DVS Stiff
Irons: MIURA PP-9003, Dynamic Gold Superlite S300, Sand Wedge: Scratch 8620 56°
Putter: Nike Method Concept Belly 44"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B330-S

Link to comment
Share on other sites


27 minutes ago, JerseyThursday said:

I'm confused. Here's a photo of Casper and the anchoring rules. This isn't permitted?

 

Casper Anchor.jpg

Those two pics don't tell us anything. Which was first? The one on the left or on the right. We also need to know where is hands, wrists and forearms are after he has struck the ball.

But the image at the end of the arrow (which is permitted) is not the same. In that image the player's hands are not touching his thigh. Do Casper's hands move towards his left when he strike the ball? Or is his forearm creating a pivot point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Administrator
56 minutes ago, JerseyThursday said:

I'm confused. Here's a photo of Casper and the anchoring rules. This isn't permitted?

 

Casper Anchor.jpg

We don't know if Casper's forearm was "anchored" to his thigh.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, iacas said:

We don't know if Casper's forearm was "anchored" to his thigh.

Regardless. According to the rules list on the left, it wouldn't it still be ok within the anchoring rules?

Driver: Ping K15 10°, Mitsubishi Diamana Blueboard 63g Stiff
Fairway 4-wood: TaylorMade RocketBallz Tour TP 17.5°, Matrix Ozik TP7HD S shaft

Hybrids: Callaway Diablo Edge 3H-4H, Aldila DVS Stiff
Irons: MIURA PP-9003, Dynamic Gold Superlite S300, Sand Wedge: Scratch 8620 56°
Putter: Nike Method Concept Belly 44"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B330-S

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Only Billy would be able to tell us if he was anchoring or not. Unfortunately, he is no longer with us.  In one interview, he admitted holding his forearm against his thigh and stroking the ball with his wrists, with the back of the left wrist facing the target.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I did find a range of visual material of him putting, some of it excellent, entertaining golf. He absolutely was not anchoring on the long putts - it simply wasn't possible to keep the left forearm/wrist glued to his body when he needed to give it a solid smack (slower greens then too); but on the short putts the technique looked very firmly connected forearm just above wrist to thigh - is that an anchor point? I'm not entirely clear on that, because it appears nothing like any of the anchored pictures provided by the USGA. Bracing an arm against the body is permitted and there is no picture of creating an anchor with a standard hands together putting grip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


5 hours ago, fredf said:

but on the short putts the technique looked very firmly connected forearm just above wrist to thigh - is that an anchor point? 

An “anchor point” exists when the player intentionally holds a forearm in contact with any part of his body to establish a gripping hand as a stable point around which the other hand may swing the club

Link to comment
Share on other sites


14 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

An “anchor point” exists when the player intentionally holds a forearm in contact with any part of his body to establish a gripping hand as a stable point around which the other hand may swing the club

I don't see the conditions you have named being met: the gripping (left) hand is not a stable point for Casper, it goes through a range of wrist flex motion that is continuous movement, even on short putts. And I have never seen any anchored putting approach that 'stabs' the ball in the way he does, the anchored styles are all about smooth flow with pendulum elements to the action. All the illegal actions we have been shown to date have the features of a hand or club locked against the body and Casper doesn't have that.

Sure is a dearth of rules issues lately!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


1 hour ago, fredf said:

I don't see the conditions you have named being met: the gripping (left) hand is not a stable point for Casper, it goes through a range of wrist flex motion that is continuous movement, even on short putts. And I have never seen any anchored putting approach that 'stabs' the ball in the way he does, the anchored styles are all about smooth flow with pendulum elements to the action. All the illegal actions we have been shown to date have the features of a hand or club locked against the body and Casper doesn't have that.

Sure is a dearth of rules issues lately!

I was not saying his grip would be illegal. But the two pictures don't show whether or not his forearm is fixed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


36 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

I was not saying his grip would be illegal. But the two pictures don't show whether or not his forearm is fixed.

And a fixed/locked forearm is not a breach.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


4 hours ago, Rulesman said:

It is according to the USGA's note 2 on the fuller version of the pictorial featured above.

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/images/rules/anchoring/understanding-anchored-strokes.pdf

 

There's no need to look at that out of date reference, because all the relevant wording is contained now in Rule 10.1b (see the first two bullet points).

The point I continue to make is Casper does not have any "anchor point". Anchor point is defined in 10.1b/1 and when a player grips the club with a standard reverse overlap putting grip (hands together) it is not possible to meet that definition of anchor point. So there is no doubt - there is no "indirect" anchoring through use of an anchor point.

And the statement by @iacas that fixing a forearm to a leg is a breach is simply wrong. It meets neither of the two elements of 10.1b.

The outstanding question is whether Casper is "directly" anchoring - ie the first bullet point in 10.1b.  His left hand starts from a position in contact with the thigh and then twitches away from the thigh, pivoting somewhere around the wrist or back of hand. That is, on the short putts at least, some part of the wrist or maybe also part of the hand retains some contact with thigh while other parts of the left hand move away from the thigh.  But we have no guidance on whether this would be considered a breach by RBs - they have provided no example of a standard hands together grip producing a breach where no part of the club is in direct contact with the player's body.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


The club does not need to be in direct contact with the body.

10.1b bullet 2

Indirectly, through use of an “anchor point,” by holding a forearm against any part of the body to use a gripping hand as a stable point around which the other hand may swing the club.

I don't know what Casper did as I haven't seen any video of a full putting stroke

Link to comment
Share on other sites


4 hours ago, Rulesman said:

The club does not need to be in direct contact with the body.

10.1b bullet 2

Indirectly, through use of an “anchor point,” by holding a forearm against any part of the body to use a gripping hand as a stable point around which the other hand may swing the club.

I don't know what Casper did as I haven't seen any video of a full putting stroke

10.1b, bullet point 2, is explained carefully in 10.1b/1. Quote: For an 'anchor point' to exist, two things must happen: (1) the player must hold a forearm against the body; AND (2) THE PLAYER MUST GRIP THE CLUB SO THAT THE HANDS ARE SEPARATED AND WORK INDEPENDENTLY FROM EACH OTHER.

To repeat myself yet again, Casper used a hands together grip, so did not use an anchor point that satisfies the prohibition in the rule, as explained in 10.1b/1. So you misunderstand the rule if you try to defend the statement that 'fixing a forearm to a leg is a breach', it is not, it meets neither of the two elements of 10.1b.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


0A2CB74A-E476-4531-AF95-20E99735FF13.gif.c5e786ee07c17dcbb49cc22b00c19b5c.gif

  • Like 1

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 826 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • Support TST Affiliates

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct links for Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package. Save 10% on Mevo with coupon code "IACAS" as well.
  • Posts

    • Driver (Titleist 915D2), 4W (Titleist 917F2), 19 degree hybrid (Titleist TS2) 20 degree hybrid (Maltby KE4). What's the story?  I got my driver in 2015.  First ever fit driver, first ever new-as-in-new driver.  In 2017, I got my irons, 5-U.  I got fit for a hybrid (Ping demo day) but I had just bought a 4H, so I kept it.  I already had the 3H that went with it (that's the 20 degree in the bag now).   In 2018, I was going to buy a 3W and a 5W.  Titleist rep discovered I hit the 4W past the two of those, and those two about the same distance.  Dude could've just fit me for those two and made that sale, but I believe he helped me get the best bag makeup I could with what I was looking for.  So he suggested a 4W and a 3H.  I bought the 4W;  again, I had a 3H already.  But Titleist got some appreciation from me for that in the fitting. A month or so ago, I discovered my 5I and 4H were going comparably, with some of the better 4H shots hitting into the lower end of 3H acceptable shots.  And my best 3H shots were a good 25-30 yards short of my 4W.  So I dropped the 4H and, while at the Roger Dunn, found the 3H I had been fit for (same specs, successor head I think).  I had been looking for the 7W cousin of my 4W but found this instead.  I borrowed it from them (not a euphemism -- they have a 90 day 100% money back guarantee, so it's basically borrowing with a security deposit... but I like this club). And I hit it well past my old 3H and short of my 4W, so there's a good gap.   One of these days I might get a full bag fitting or replace a lot at once or something but... I took up golf in graduate school and a lot of the financial habits are tough to break.  Plus, I own a lot of clubs that I really like (driver, 4W, 3H now, all my irons down to the UW).   
    • Day 2: Did some work on priority piece with 7-iron, and then some work on driver, just static setup stuff and some slower rehearsal swings, no balls.
    • I really got caught up writing today -- that's most of what I did from lunchtime until about 9.  That's good news for me professionally, since I got a lot of writing done, but not great for me in terms of my club championship that begins on Friday   But hey, I had a few minutes to practice, I made use of them. Day 155.  A half dozen each of quarter PW, quarter 8I, full swing 6-Iron.  Real balls, indoors, off a mat, into a net. 
    • Day 14: Today I practiced three times, each about 10-15 minutes, in the morning, before dinner, and before bed. Each time it was the same thing, swings from A2 to P6 or whatever the club horizontal after impact is. It's extremely frustrating to do this and continue to have a shut club face. I tried presetting at the delivery position, where I _know_ the face is correct, and I still find some way to shut it coming to impact. My belief is that it's excessive arm or forearm rotation that I do without knowing it, but I'm not sure. I need to record some of these swings and look. When I swing in a mirror, I know I do it "correctly," but those aren't real swings where I'm hitting a ball. There is a parasite in there somewhere, and I have to find it.   
    • 😄 My breath is smelling better today...
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. alexfisher
      alexfisher
      (43 years old)
    2. Fkstang
      Fkstang
      (53 years old)
    3. marygujjari
      marygujjari
      (30 years old)
    4. RRTXgolfer
      RRTXgolfer
      (78 years old)
    5. Wanzo
      Wanzo
      (43 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...