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mcanadiens

Kittyhawk and Madden Closed Permanently

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Word from well connected places says the City of Dayton will announce tomorrow that Kittyhawk and Madden will be closed permanently.

The guy this is coming from is in a position to know and wouldn't have said such a thing if he wasn't sure about it.

Nothing to do now but get my money back so I can go play else where. 

Damn shame because I had started to like a number of the people down there and in the men's association. Damn shame because with some better maintenance those would be two fine public courses. Damn shame because there is that much less reason to ever set foot in the City of Dayton. Damn shame because I loved sitting on the porch of the Fairway Inn with a beer or two after the round.

What a waste. 

Edited by mcanadiens

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That's interesting since the Division of Golf HQ is at Kittyhawk. Madden doesn't surprise me at all or even if they closed 1 or 2 of the courses at Kittyhawk.

1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

Nothing to do now but get my money back so I can go play else where. 

I doubt they will refund your money since you can still play at Community. I also would go too far until they make the announcement. The rumor mill is running rampant everywhere these days. Closing the Falcon may have been translated into the entire facility closing.

There is going to be a news conference at 10AM.

Some-golf-courses-remain-open.jpg?w=1280

DAYTON, Ohio (WDTN) – Golfers could soon hit the links again at Dayton golf courses. Dayton closed its golf centers closed through April 30...

 

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1 minute ago, CarlSpackler said:

That's interesting since the Division of Golf HQ is at Kittyhawk. Madden doesn't surprise me at all or even if they closed 1 or 2 of the courses at Kittyhawk.

I doubt they will refund your money since you can still play at Community. I also would go too far until they make the announcement. The rumor mill is running rampant everywhere these days. Closing the Falcon may have been translated into the entire facility closing.

It was DW backed up by others. Notably ZF saw it, reacted but didn't contradict it. ... Of course, there really isn't anything to do until they make the announcement.

The theoretical possibility of getting a couple of tee times at Community is nearly worthless and it will be even more worthless if they don't offer refunds. How the hell are they going to get all of us on those two courses? We'd be fighting over tee times two weeks in the future.

Forget that. Give me my money.

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

It was DW backed up by others. Notably ZF saw it, reacted but didn't contradict it. ... Of course, there really isn't anything to do until they make the announcement.

The theoretical possibility of getting a couple of tee times at Community is nearly worthless and it will be even more worthless if they don't offer refunds. How the hell are they going to get all of us on those two courses? We'd be fighting over tee times two weeks in the future.

Forget that. Give me my money

I guess we will find out in 15 minutes.

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Watching the news conference and it is no longer a rumor. RIP Kittyhawk and Madden. I wonder if Christine will sue them for breach of contract.

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1 minute ago, CarlSpackler said:

Watching the news conference and it is no longer a rumor. RIP Kittyhawk and Madden. I wonder if Christine will sue them for breach of contract.

Probably depends on how much she is out and if they make any effort to settle up with her. 

Hopefully, she didn't go to a whole lot of expense ramping up to open before the virus hit. 

 

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1 minute ago, CarlSpackler said:

Mr. Fink seems to be an unlucky penny. First Rollandia, then Greene CC, and now Kittyhawk.

Ain't that the truth. 

Of course, Rollandia was a deal where the land was just to valuable to remain a pitch-and-putt. 

Still a bit unclear on the Greene CC thing, but I thought he and his guys did a half decent job last year. Obviously, didn't have much to work with, but the courses were better than they were under Dalton. 

Still not exactly the resume you want trying to land that next job, if that's what he does.

 

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She said that golf is for the middle class, not those in poverty, so it would be irresponsible to keep them open. Community is only staying open because it can operate without dipping into the general fund. No word on pass holders.

newsEngin.25692266_golf-dayton-lkjlj.jpg

The city of Dayton is closing two of its three golf centers permanently to cut costs, which comes af...

 

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8 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

She said that golf is for the middle class, not those in poverty, so it would be irresponsible to keep them open. Community is only staying open because it can operate without dipping into the general fund. No word on pass holders.

Good plan.

Make sure only the poorest people have any reason to be in Dayton. Keep that pesky middle class away. They might leave behind too much money.

Obviously us middle class, pass-holders are low priority here. Nan's got important life-saving challenges to rescue her impoverished people from the mighty Coronavirus. 

Sorry. Venting just a bit.

Edited by mcanadiens

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As a city resident, I agree with the closing of these facilities. They should be able to stand on their own or come closer to it. Tough decisions have to be made in times like this. Do you cut police and fire to make up the budget shortfall related to COVID-19. They will need to cut A LOT more than this, but this was an easy decision. They can now avoid a huge capital investment to get the courses up to par (pun intended).

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They were asked if they would consider selling off to someone who was interested. Kittyhawk is off the table since it is on top of the water well field. She also mentioned that the water dept. didn't like having a golf course there anyway. If someone comes up with the $7 million needed to update Madden, they would consider it. Like that is going to happen...

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25 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

As a city resident, I agree with the closing of these facilities. They should be able to stand on their own or come closer to it. Tough decisions have to be made in times like this. Do you cut police and fire to make up the budget shortfall related to COVID-19. They will need to cut A LOT more than this, but this was an easy decision. They can now avoid a huge capital investment to get the courses up to par (pun intended).

The 50k ($0.33 or less per resident per year) from general funds is hardly a lot of money to consider for keeping green spaces. The courses would have been making loads more this year if they hadn't closed when they were permitted to be open. All of the golf that I have played since March 30th has been played on packed courses, and the CoD golf courses could have had their share of that pie if THBIC wasn't who she is. I think that closing Falcon and Madden (although I think Madden is in the best shape playing wise, and probably my favorite layout of all six) would have been reasonable, but Hawk and Eagle didn't need to go so quickly.

My 850 dollar pass is pretty much useless if they are going to cram all of the municipal golfers on to 2 courses, as @mcanadiens stated. Tee times will be weeks out, and rounds will be 5.5 hours if I had to make a guess, that is if they ever open. Right now I am wishing I had picked a different route for my golf this year, even though the city pass would have been amazing. Such a shame to see these courses go. I wish someone would come in and donate/save municipal golf in Dayton.

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I suppose you could say Dayton, through years of incompetence, pigeon holed itself into this situation. In this moment sacking the golf courses really is the easy choice.

Seeing my golf season come to an end before it even really started is disappointing. I'll probably be able to get out a few times somewhere and bang the ball around, but obviously won't be able to play as many rounds. Our little Association games aren't that big a deal, but they were something. The only bright side I can think of is that I hadn't had the opportunity to buy the new driver and shoes I was planning on. 

Sorry @Bonvivant. Hell of a raw deal.  South of town (if I remember right) makes things even tougher. Other than Community everything is either private or expensive. Can't be blowing $50 at Yankee Trace, Pipestone or Beavercreek all that often. At least up where I am, Miami Shores, Homestead and Sugar Isle all offer reasonable rates and are easy to walk.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

The 50k ($0.33 or less per resident per year) from general funds is hardly a lot of money to consider for keeping green spaces.

They will likely become city parks, donated to 5 Rivers MP to manage, or simply be dormant. I would love to do some fishing at Kittyhawk. There are nice bass in some of those ponds. Either way, they will remain green spaces, but without fairways, bunkers, and greens with holes, and that 50K will drop significantly.

7 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

The courses would have been making loads more this year if they hadn't closed when they were permitted to be open.

Neither of the courses that are closing have made money for many years and require huge capital investments to upgrade. It's not fiscally responsible to keep them open even without the COVID-19 recession which definitely sealed the deal.

8 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Right now I am wishing I had picked a different route for my golf this year

There are a lot of people in the same boat. I'm thankful that I didn't jump in that boat like in years past. I imagine that there will be quite a few COVID casualties in golf courses and businesses across the country. I'm afraid we are heading to the next Greater depression.

2 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Can't be blowing $50 at Yankee Trace, Pipestone or Beavercreek all that often.

Beavercreek used to have a twilight rate after 5PM. You can get 18 in during the summer hours with lots of daylight. I will have to see if they still offer that.

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10 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Can't be blowing $50 at Yankee Trace, Pipestone or Beavercreek all that often. 

You guys have much more experience than I do playing these courses, but I see that Beavercreek can be walked for $30 after 2PM on weekends. That's not bad at all.

There's another I'm sure you have heard of about 20 minutes southwest of Dayton called Jamaica Run, its only $37 for 18 with a cart on weekends on Teeoff.com 

Rocky Lakes is about 30 min northwest of downtown and is only $31 for 18 w cart before 2PM and only $25 after 2PM

Not trying to diminish the situation or anything but it does seem like there are still some options available under $50 in the area.

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2 minutes ago, klineka said:

Beavercreek can be walked

That's pretty funny. Of course, you are a flat-belly so you might have a chance.

Yeah, you can get in the family truckster and drive somewhere. What you save in greens fees, you pay in gas and time.

Besides, those vultures are holding on to a significant amount of what we pay every year for greens fees. Going to be hard to come up with even more scratch until or unless we actually get a refund. 

 

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3 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Yeah, you can get in the family truckster and drive somewhere. What you save in greens fees, you pay in gas and time.

Dude. Gas is like $1.50 per gallon right now. Driving 60 miles round trip to play a round based on a truck that gets 15 mpg only costs like $6. Add that to Jamaica Run or Rocky Lakes and you're still in the upper 30s to low 40s, even with 60 miles of gas at 15mpg Rocky Lakes is only $31.

All I was trying to say was that it's not really accurate to act like those 3 courses you listed are the only non city courses remaining and they are all $50+. There are other options, they just might not be as ideal as what you are used to.

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