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Kittyhawk and Madden Closed Permanently


mcanadiens
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11 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

City courses tend to be very affordable golf courses.

Yes. They tended to be affordable. But ...

Not as affordable is the favorite game of any real resident of Dayton. ... I speak, of course, of Spin The Bottle. $3 for a 40 from what I've heard.

St Ides Malt Liquor Price & Reviews | Drizly

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1 hour ago, CarlSpackler said:

Here is WHIO news report. Christine was on tv news story if you have time to watch it.  

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Madden and Kittyhawk will be the courses to close. Community will remain open.

watch i

According to the article, Kittyhawk pulled in about $1.05 million in revenues last year, and will need at least 4-5 times that much in capital improvements and renovations. Yikes. 

I know that there is more that goes into running a municipal golf course than bottom line profit, but dollars and cents still has to be a consideration. With figures like that, it's not hard to see why the city reached the conclusion that they did.

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12 hours ago, Big C said:

According to the article, Kittyhawk pulled in about $1.05 million in revenues last year, and will need at least 4-5 times that much in capital improvements and renovations. Yikes. 

I know that there is more that goes into running a municipal golf course than bottom line profit, but dollars and cents still has to be a consideration. With figures like that, it's not hard to see why the city reached the conclusion that they did.

Well when the city has been running the place into the ground for decades, it's real cute for them to act stunned that it is losing money and needs those kind of capital improvements. 

The fair-haired child of the Dayton operation got a brand new irrigation system not long ago. We got squat. 

Typical Dayton. Squander away your assets, shut stuff down. 

Last one out, please turn off the lights.

 

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10 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

The fair-haired child of the Dayton operation got a brand new irrigation system not long ago. We got squat. 

The course that was actually making money got first dibs on capital. That's not surprising. Perhaps if Kittyhawk had closed the Falcon (par 3) course years ago to cut cost, it might have stayed in the black. Instead they added foot golf holes in a failed attempt to attract more action.

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1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

Incidentally, still no word on where my refund is.

Going to have to send the leg-breakers.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on that. If you have leg-breakers that are bigger than the ones the city has, my hats off to you.

Edited by CarlSpackler
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(edited)
26 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on that. If you have leg-breakers that are bigger than the ones the city has, my hats of to you.

I'll send Gino and Chuckie to Nan's house personally if I have to.

Worst comes to worst, I'll just have them take the value (plus their fee) in red-light cameras. I'm sure we can find someone to sell those to.

Edited by mcanadiens
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1 minute ago, mcanadiens said:

I'll send Gino and Chuckie to Nan's house personally if I have to.

Let me know if you need to borrow Moose and Rocko.

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5 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Let me know if you need to borrow Moose and Rocko.

Thanks.

More practically, I've sent them an e-mail and a message of facebook. We'll start turning up the pressure if I don't hear something by next week. 

I need my money to finance these full priced rounds that I'll be attempting to get in.

At this juncture, I'm considering a sort of tryout for area courses to become my next home course. Miami Shores, obviously, has a significant hometown advantage, but I'll try to make the most of my vagrant golfer status.

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I am curious how they allocated season pass sales to the different courses when they calculated course profitability. Was it evenly divided? Was it not factored in at all, and they only accounted fo paid rounds? It seemed to me that many of the people who played Kittyhawk on a regular basis were season pass holders where Community had more casual rounds. I can see a huge drop in season pass sales since you are now only getting access to 2 courses instead of 6m, and only 1 of the 2 courses you now have access to is a big boy course.

Edited by CarlSpackler
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(edited)
12 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

I am curious how they allocated season pass sales to the different courses when they calculated course profitability. Was it evenly divided? Was it not factored in at all, and they only accounted fo paid rounds? It seemed to me that many of the people who played Kittyhawk on a regular basis were season pass holders where Community had more casual rounds. I can see a huge drop in season pass sales since you are now only getting access to 2 courses instead of 6m, and only 1 of the 2 courses you now have access to is a big boy course.

Now that the deed is done, it really doesn't matter how the brain rust allocated pass sales. Perhaps they simply pro-rated it based on the total rounds on each course.

Needless to say, it will be a total nightmare trying to get tee times for either the Hills or Dales this year. Playing as much solo golf as I do, that really makes it not worthy of a thought. You'd essentially have to have at least one partner every time you play just to be able to book a tee time. 

Not having the access to multiple courses is the part that really sucks. I can find courses for about the same price point, but that will be 1 course and not six. I will be hostage to whatever traffic patterns it has on a day to day basis. With Kittyhawk, I could show up any time I wanted and know, at worst, I'd be able to play the Kitty. Plus KHMA had guaranteed tee times both Saturday and Sunday morning. 

 

Edited by mcanadiens
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1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

Playing as much solo golf as I do, that really makes it not worthy of a thought.

I usually play as a single, but I never make a tee time. I can show up at any course and get paired up. Even as busy as Homestead has been, I just head out and they find a group to stick me with. I also like meeting new people that way, but if I go out as a single, I'm good with that too. It is highly unlikely that you will get a refund since you still have access to Community, I would at least give that a try. Duck might also be able to get tee times at Community once they reopen.

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3 hours ago, CarlSpackler said:

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on that. If you have leg-breakers that are bigger than the ones the city has, my hats off to you.

I don't think @mcanadiens has a case. The pass is still valid. They didn't close down every course you can play with the pass.

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Just now, iacas said:

I don't think @mcanadiens has a case. The pass is still valid. They didn't close down every course you can play with the pass.

That's what I've been trying to convince @mcanadiens of. I will be sure to post the news article here when he gets arrested. 🤣

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Two or three rounds at Community is not fair value for what I paid.

My pass is worthless. 

A refund is reasonable.

 

 

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I hope that Shapiro (now former head greens keeper at Kittyhawk) gets another job. He did a great job with what he had to work with.

Just now, mcanadiens said:

Two or three rounds at Community is not fair value for what I paid.

My pass is worthless. 

A refund is reasonable.

You are imposing those limits, not them.

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1 minute ago, CarlSpackler said:

I hope that Shapiro (now former head greens keeper at Kittyhawk) gets another job. He did a great job with what he had to work with.

You are imposing those limits, not them.

Not sure what's so hard to understand about this.

There are 24 hours in a day and two golf courses. If they don't issue refunds, every frigging person in the system is going to be trying to play those same two courses. When they have a full tee sheet for a day, nobody else is getting on. 

The bottom line is that no matter how hard I try to get on, or how much time I waste sitting around waiting for a spot to open up, I'm going to get substantially fewer rounds than I paid for. 

 

 

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