Could COVID-19 Be Good for Golf in the Future?

[Vinsk]

5 minutes ago, David in FL said:

You can’t talk about “golf”, and ignore that ultimately, it’s about people.  Players, owners, course/retail employees, manufacturers, hospitality, the list goes on...

Can you find individual “benefits”?  I guess so.  But I maintain that anyone who thinks that there’s anything even approaching a net benefit, is horribly nearsighted.

How is an increase in the number of people playing golf across the country not a net benefit? More people taking up golf, more hamburgers eaten, more golf clothes bought, more equipment..the list goes on. Come on man...again..not a net benefit for the people of this country...I’m talking about golf alone. Nothing wrong with trying to find something positive. It’s not being nearsighted...it’s being optimistic in a shitty time. 
Seeing families out at the course, kids taking lessons who otherwise wouldn’t have even considered it and couples playing together for the first time is a good thing...for golf. I’m not saying the disaster from this situation can be eased  because golf may get a boost. I’m saying aside from this shit show maybe golf will get something positive. What exactly are you saying in regards to golf...not the economy...just golf?

[David in FL]

9 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

How is an increase in the number of people playing golf across the country not a net benefit? More people taking up golf, more hamburgers eaten, more golf clothes bought, more equipment..the list goes on. Come on man...again..not a net benefit for the people of this country...I’m talking about golf alone. Nothing wrong with trying to find something positive. It’s not being nearsighted...it’s being optimistic in a shitty time. 
Seeing families out at the course, kids taking lessons who otherwise wouldn’t have even considered it and couples playing together for the first time is a good thing...for golf. I’m not saying the disaster from this situation can be eased  because golf may get a boost. I’m saying aside from this shit show maybe golf will get something positive. What exactly are you saying in regards to golf...not the economy...just golf?

Some people are trying way too hard to put lipstick on this pig.  I Gould easily opine that for every kid or couple that starts taking lessons in the areas that allow it, there are those that lose interest entirely in the areas that don’t.

Regardless though, net means net.  Add up the benefits.  Subtract the negatives.  Are you plus or minus?  Not just in number, but in magnitude.  One course getting a bit of a break and improving conditioning incrementally doesn’t “equal” the course that closes its doors forever.

Years ago, my neighbor’s daughter’s puppy used to yip annoyingly at night.  Until the day it got hit by a car and that little girl was devastated.  But at least I got a better night’s sleep.  Right?

 

[CarlSpackler]

You can find good and bad in anything. We are approaching the 1st anniversary of several tornadoes devastating our area. Many people lost everything temporarily, but nobody died and the community bonded together. Many neighborhoods were rebuilt (still rebuilding) and are much nicer than before. I believe that good will overcome the bad even though it can takes some time.

[iacas]

8 hours ago, David in FL said:

I’m genuinely shocked that anyone could even pretend to find a net benefit to this horrible situation!

And yet… people are. Especially in the northeast where our season isn’t year-round.

There are positives to come out of this. You can’t argue that. The only thing you can argue is the “net” part.

[Vinsk]

7 hours ago, David in FL said:

 One course getting a bit of a break and improving conditioning incrementally doesn’t “equal” the course that closes its doors forever.

I don’t have the numbers....but I don’t think more courses shut down and closed than remained open in a stable capacity. Allowing maintenance to continue was widespread no? Just speculation here.

 

7 hours ago, David in FL said:

Years ago, my neighbor’s daughter’s puppy used to yip annoyingly at night.  Until the day it got hit by a car and that little girl was devastated.  But at least I got a better night’s sleep.  Right?

The story broke out and shelters stated a 25% increase in adoptions.😃 Your example is individualizing. Looking for a positive effect on golf as a sport overall doesn’t mean that losing ones job negates a positive effect for golf. It’s understood that golf is of low importance in people’s lives with this pandemic. I’m just strictly talking about golf right now. 
 

A family lost their child in an awful abduction/murder case. The Amber Alert was created and has since prevented thousands of possible similar cases. A positive came from an awful negative.

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

A family lost their child in an awful abduction/murder case. The Amber Alert was created and has since prevented thousands of possible similar cases. A positive came from an awful negative.

As I said, you can find something good out of anything.

But “good for golf in the future” implies, at least to me, a net positive going forward.  I don’t see anything near that.

Of course, others are welcome to their opinion.

[Vinsk]

46 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Of course, others are welcome to their opinion

Well it’s not necessarily even my opinion. It’s more ‘ is it possible, why or if not, why not?’ You have a much keener knowledge of ‘business operations ‘ than I do so I was curious what you thought causes the net effect to be negative as far as golf is concerned.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Vinsk

[iacas]

47 minutes ago, David in FL said:

As I said, you can find something good out of anything.

But “good for golf in the future” implies, at least to me, a net positive going forward.  I don’t see anything near that.

Of course, others are welcome to their opinion.

We are, yep.

@Vinsk, it's an opinion, c'mon. And what isn't opinion - what can be measured, etc. - is speculation at this point.

I think it's possible we'll have a net positive effect from this, across golf, for reasons previously stated. I'm not going to say it's likely only that it's possible to a non-negligible amount.

[Vinsk]

52 minutes ago, David in FL said:

As I said, you can find something good out of anything.

But “good for golf in the future” implies, at least to me, a net positive going forward.  I don’t see anything near that.

Of course, others are welcome to their opinion.

Well I guess time will tell.

[GolfLug]

I think there is a huge chasm in the outlook between tourism dependent golf and local play dependent golf.  

Example, for fancy-golf-FL it doesn't seem very good. Not many people getting on a plane and for the life of me I am not sure how they will ever get to shoulder to shoulder seating any time soon (a much bigger issue than golf IMO). For that reason alone, I am sure 'resort' golf courses will continue to suffer long term. I feel for Disney. 

I have a feeling this may be counter-intuitive but play prices will HAVE to go up for sake of sheer survival to account for lost rounds. The avid golfer will prolly pay $155 if they were prepared to pay $125.   

Having said that, here in the Virginia Beach, golf courses (mostly local play) have experienced a minor windfall. Home constrained golfers have been flocking to play even on weekdays as golf has never stopped (in VA, golf was deemed essential for exercise- ). Courses here are flat and easy to walk so quantity of carts to support the demand ended up being not much of an issue. Few city courses on verge of closing pre-COVID have hurried up and closed reducing supply. A few surviving courses have even raised prices opportunistically and lost nary a round. I think the surviving courses will continue to do fine and may be even better.   

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by GolfLug

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I have a feeling this may be counter-intuitive but play prices will HAVE to go up for sake of sheer survival to account for lost rounds. The avid golfer will prolly pay $155 if they were prepared to pay $125. 

Maybe at some destination courses.

Prices could go down at local courses if they get more play.

P.S. Don’t underestimate the American mindset of “I’ll show that stupid virus!” I don’t think outside of any economic depression stuff that destination golf will take a big hit. People are stubborn and we will find a vaccine or at least treatments. And realize apparently that if you’re a healthy 50 yo that this may not be something to worry about for yourself.

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Don’t underestimate the American mindset of “I’ll show that stupid virus!” 

Ha ha..

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Realize apparently that if you’re a healthy 50 yo that this may not be something to worry about for yourself.

Absolutely. I have zero fear factor of it. But don't try to rationalize this to people that have made up minds.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 I don’t think outside of any economic depression stuff that destination golf will take a big hit. 

Yesss! I fancy me some fancy-FL golf. Some reason I always seem to play better there than hand-me-my-ass PH.

[David in FL]

17 hours ago, GolfLug said:

 

I have a feeling this may be counter-intuitive but play prices will HAVE to go up for sake of sheer survival to account for lost rounds. The avid golfer will prolly pay $155 if they were prepared to pay $125.   

I’d be a little surprised to see an increase, even here in Orlando.  Simple supply and demand.  Demand remains lower than it was previously because of the travel challenges you mention, so prices will tend to drop to attract the fewer players that are around...

 

17 hours ago, GolfLug said:

16 hours ago, iacas said:

Prices could go down at local courses if they get more play.

 

I’d agree.  Not necessarily because of any increase in play from what was previously the norm, but as they try to compete for golfers returning post lockdown.  

[GolfLug]

57 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I’d be a little surprised to see an increase, even here in Orlando.  Simple supply and demand.  Demand remains lower than it was previously because of the travel challenges you mention, so prices will tend to drop to attract the fewer players that are around...

Well then, that's a positive if you are a player.. 

BTW, this is exactly what I posted about. It is so different here in VA Beach. Courses here can't beat them away with a stick. I haven't played in 3 months due to an injury but my group that plays the 3-4 courses all have paid more than they paid last year. 

[Buckeyebowman]

On 5/11/2020 at 12:53 PM, iacas said:

Nope, and this topic isn't about "shrinking the game," so let's move on and discuss the actual topic, please.

It's a reaction to the idea that we over-built in the late 90s and early 00s. Too many golf courses, and then now we have to "grow the game" to try to make the over-grown 90s/00s sustainable. Maybe we don't.

But again, not the topic here.

I've already seen some of the effects in the OP in the past here in NE Ohio. We were severely overbuilt for golf, and when we started losing population after the steel mills closed, courses started going down! And we lost some good ones, ones I hated to see go! 

As far as increased walking, I've observed an increase in that for the past few years. Especially at Mill Creek Park golf course. This is a 36 hole Donald Ross track in the Mahoning County Metro Park District. Lots of people come to walk to get exercise on the hike & bike trails, so why not throw in another activity to make your walk more interesting? And I don't think it hurts that, a few years ago, they spent a ton of money on a slew of new, state of the the art, Sun Mountain push carts, and got rid of the old, depression era pull carts! 

I really don't expect the effects from COVID-19 to be all that significant. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Buckeyebowman

[StuM]

On 5/10/2020 at 11:55 AM, bkuehn1952 said:

On balance I think COVID-19 will hurt the industry deeply.  While there are certainly bright spots such as new or returning golfers filling the courses, on balance negatives outweigh the temporary positives.  The loss of revenue from cart rentals along with food and beverage sales are significant.  Resort courses in the Mitten's north have to be worried about whether anyone will venture out once the lockdown is relaxed further.  Personally, I am not excited about the idea of staying in a hotel and eating in a restaurant, no matter what social distancing practices are in effect. Our golf club formerly ran 14 senior tournaments at local courses (110 or so participants).  Since we can't do shotgun starts and still social distance, it is likely we will need to drastically reduce our schedule.  I suspect most outings and events are having similar issues.

 

I can't speak for everyone but I am going to the Northern Michigan Resorts this year.  Too nice to pass up.  I had a trip to Garland (Lewiston, MI) scheduled for May 6-8 and reschedule that to late July.  They were great and allowed me to keep my "Early Bird Discount".  I am also going to Treetops in early September.

For any that have not experienced Northern Michigan Golf, you need to try it.

[StuM]

On 5/10/2020 at 5:37 PM, David in FL said:

 The courses simply aren’t designed for walking, and if walkers are on the course, POP suffers.

So true, there are courses I would love to play but walking them is just out of the question for me because they may be very hilly and long distances between some holes.  Until 2 riders per cart are allowed I will be sticking to the flatter/shorter courses. 

As for POP, it is a little slower but it is more "Even Paced" and less waiting on the tee box.  Since all foursomes have a couple of walkers it keeps a group with all in carts pushing up on a group of 4 walkers.  Yes, we are all a little slower but since not waiting at every tee box it does not feel as slow.

[jmanbooyaa]

At the local course I play I am seeing tremendous amounts of golfers. 
 

When I play 9 during the week prior to starting work the course is packed.  7 am on a Tuesday that many golfers is a good thing.