Playing From the Wrong (Too Long) Tees?

[cooke119]

Most courses where I play have a blue, white, gold and red tees, (red being the ladies tee). The league I am in has a rule that if you are 65 or older you hit from the gold, if you know you don't drive the ball that far you can also play the golds. Bottom line the guys and gals I play with are older and don't drive the ball that far anymore so we're happy to play the golds, makes the game more fun and gets us to the 19th quicker. But outside the league when I play I still play the golds but see many who drive the ball 200 to 210 yards playing from the whites, some even play from the blues. I just shake my head and realize it is going to be a long day. 

[billchao]

30 minutes ago, cooke119 said:

Most courses where I play have a blue, white, gold and red tees, (red being the ladies tee). The league I am in has a rule that if you are 65 or older you hit from the gold, if you know you don't drive the ball that far you can also play the golds. Bottom line the guys and gals I play with are older and don't drive the ball that far anymore so we're happy to play the golds, makes the game more fun and gets us to the 19th quicker. But outside the league when I play I still play the golds but see many who drive the ball 200 to 210 yards playing from the whites, some even play from the blues. I just shake my head and realize it is going to be a long day. 

Somebody told me about a league they’re playing in that limits tees by age, too. Didn’t make any sense to me. I know 20 year old guys who play off 19 that can’t drive the ball 220 and they have to play from the longer tees, but the 65 year old 5 handicap plays from the shorter ones.

[Bonvivant]

3 minutes ago, billchao said:

Somebody told me about a league they’re playing in that limits tees by age, too. Didn’t make any sense to me. I know 20 year old guys who play off 19 that can’t drive the ball 220 and they have to play from the longer tees, but the 65 year old 5 handicap plays from the shorter ones.

I encounter this in a game I play somewhat regularly. As a 31 year old the gets 200-230 off the tee, it is really frustrating when a good chunk of the seniors hit it farther than me and get to play a box or sometime 2 boxes up. I could have my best drive of the year and be in the back of the pack sometimes....seems fair. I suppose it's just a reason to get better/faster

[dennyjones]

For the past 4 years prior to Covid-19 we played in a tournament up north in Garland.    The tournament director used age as a measure determining the correct tees.   Each year he aged, his age was the age for the forward tees.    Some of the tees were significantly different and the younger people were at a major disadvantage.   I just pulled the score card from one course and the difference was over 2100 yards from the tips to the forward tees.    We knew the situation going into the tournament but for the cost, we pretty much played free and used it as a social event.

[Rkrider99]

At our retirement community course, we have black(6100), gold(5500), green(5200), and silver(4300) tees, with the green or silver being the ladies tees. The green is also used for the senior tees. Normally, in group tournament play, the gold tees are used. Yesterday, a typical day for me, on most of the par 4's it was driver, wedge, to the green. On the days we're out for fun with the usual foursome, or I'm out practicing myself, I'll play from the black tees. I've scored better sometimes from the black tees, where I can't reach those fairway bunkers, and it's usually just a club or two difference on my second shot into the greens. I'm 70 years old.

[Sandy Lie]

21 hours ago, iacas said:

I joined this topic a bit late and never fully read the OP. Having done so, it's even more "out there" than I thought hone I was responding before, a few days ago.

I don't think most people do. I think most people play the proper tees these days. I think that's changed since the 80s and 90s, but even then, I'm not sure even 50% of people played the wrong tees most of the time.

Still the question is valid for those who do.

Debatable.

This is where it starts to get a bit ridiculous. Ten shots different from a set of tees?

The course rating at Whispering Woods goes from 74.0 to 64.4 from the back (black) to the front (red) set of tees. That is skipping over blue, white, and gold, and you still don't get to ten shots for a scratch golfer.

Again, these experiences at Pinehurst, a "bucket list" type place, aren't representative of golfers everywhere. I think it's dangerous to draw too many conclusions from what tees people play there or at Pebble Beach or other places.

Now it's 12 shots.

Look, 12 shots, 10 shots even… often even four shots… won't be saved by moving up a set of tees.

When you start with a pretty ridiculous position… it's going to be the focus of the responses. The OP started by talking about Pinehurst and saving 10-12 shots by moving up a set of tees.

As a PGA Pro, and a teacher of the game, you of all people can not deny that playing the correct tees for anyone’s skill level will make the game more enjoyable.  Your dissecting of my post is incredulous.  For your skill level it probably would not matter what tees you play I would venture to guess. The numbers I threw out there for stroke differential are a WAG. It could be 10 strokes or 8 or 5 or none.  I’m still in disbelief that you as a PGA Professional a teacher of golf feels it necessary to use their keyboard to ridicule a poster on a website forum.  If it makes you a better person just keep at it.  And to let you and everyone reading this reply know, I’ve been contacted by other members TSP and other golf forums that your behavior and treatment of Forum Members has not gone unnoticed.  You have a lot to learn about people and should look in the mirror and try to be a better person. You know nothing about Posters in this Forum, their life experiences and backgrounds.  Take the time and ask for clarity before making judgements on any posts.  You may just find out that people come to forums to share experiences and to also seek information on the game, in your case instruction and other subjects.  I’ve met some nice people on this Forum and I appreciate that experience. Have a nice day, hit it straight.  

[CarlSpackler]

@Sandy Lie This is an Internet forum where people discuss things. You are coming off like your opinion on this is cold, hard reality that cannot be refuted. I don't see anywhere that you were ridiculed. Just because someone doesn't agree with you is not ridicule, so don't take it personally. Your last reply is quite condescending however. 

[klineka]

21 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

 I’m still in disbelief that you as a PGA Professional a teacher of golf feels it necessary to use their keyboard to ridicule a poster on a website forum. 

@Sandy Lie can you point out exactly which sentence(s) you are referring to when you say that he ridiculed you?

The definition of ridicule is "the subjection of someone or something to contemptuous and dismissive language or behavior" and I see absolutely nothing from @iacas that is even close to that. 

You made some statements, he responded with why he didn't agree with your statements. He didn't attack or insult you in any way shape or form, and since you feel that he did insult you, please quote exactly which sentence(s) because I have read every post in this thread and I don't see it.

28 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

 You have a lot to learn about people and should look in the mirror and try to be a better person. 

You know nothing about Posters in this Forum, their life experiences and backgrounds.

Hold up. In back to back sentences you judge Erik's character and tell him that he needs to be a better person but then the very next sentence you tell him that he knows nothing about the people in this forum or their experiences and backgrounds? 

Can you explain why you feel qualified to judge Erik's character when you know relatively little about him, his life experiences, or his background?

[iacas]

@Sandy Lie, an objective reading of all I’ve said will not reveal anything approaching ridicule, and I don’t care what other people on the internet have to say about someone they never met. All I’ve done here is disagree with you and share my perspective.

Beyond that… Guys, let’s stick to the topic. I hate meta conversations.

[Sandy Lie]

I see the Forum Lawyers are out today. What I know about Erik is from his profile and his website. What I’ve read there to me he sounds like a good guy. Wouldn’t mind playing a round with him. His replies here to me seem out of character.   I guess my mistake here is that I should email him rather than have members chime in. But feel free.

[klineka]

2 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

His replies here to me seem out of character.  

How so? Which replies specifically in this topic are you referring to? 

You didn't answer any of my questions in my previous post. If you are going to make claims that someone insulted you, ridiculed you, or their responses are out of character (even though you know very little about them and haven't met them in person), in my opinion you should be prepared to back up those claims which you haven't done.

[CarlSpackler]

22 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

I see the Forum Lawyers are out today. What I know about Erik is from his profile and his website. What I’ve read there to me he sounds like a good guy. Wouldn’t mind playing a round with him. His replies here to me seem out of character.   I guess my mistake here is that I should email him rather than have members chime in. But feel free.

You can call me what you like. I don't care. I'm simply trying to help you out. Don't get all riled up if someone doesn't agree with you. You may think we are all jumping to @iacas aid, but trust me when I say he doesn't need it. 

[mcanadiens]

23 hours ago, iacas said:

When you start with a pretty ridiculous position

There are certainly some people that might take exception to the word "ridiculous". The rest of it was pretty good in my opinion.

People around here, including the administrator, can be a bit aggressive with their arguments. Sometimes the word choices leave something to be desired. Maybe that goes with the medium that is the internet.

It would probably be a good thing if we were all a bit more thoughtful with how we put things, but also realize that true offense is normally not intended.

 

 

 

[Bonvivant]

5 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

There are certainly some people that might take exception to the word "ridiculous". The rest of it was pretty good in my opinion.

People around here, including the administrator, can be a bit aggressive with their arguments. Sometimes the word choices leave something to be desired. Maybe that goes with the medium that is the internet.

It would probably be a good thing if we were all a bit more thoughtful with how we put things, but also realize that true offense is normally not intended.

Too true, and certainly guilty as charged here. I think that OP means well, but may not get that the difference isn't that much on many occasions.

I know that the difference for me is probably between 3-5 strokes, which on many days is the difference between 90s and 100s or 80s and 90s. I am comfortable playing from both places, but try to play the middle tees if I can. If the rest of the group is playing farther back, I will play with them and adjust my expectations. I don't enjoy the round any less having to hit those extra few strokes, and when I have a good day from back there, it is something to be proud of. I would much rather have a 95 from the blues than a 90-92 from the whites. The handicap differential would be similar, and I would get a confidence boost from playing back there. When I play new courses I try to stick to my comfort zone though (6-6.4k yards)

[klineka]

15 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

There are certainly some people that might take exception to the word "ridiculous".

That's not ridiculing or out of character though, and the comment about feeling insulted came well before Erik's comment about the position being ridiculous. Just another example of someone making a claim without being able to back it up.

[rvanculin]

I think it is certainly possible to get a 10-shot difference in moving only 1 set of tees. I would think it is very rare, though, and varies based on each players and his/her strengths and weaknesses. If you are going from hitting mid irons and short irons to hybrids and mid irons, especially on a course with long greenside rough, it can happen. 

If you will pardon my own anecdotal evidence, there are a few courses that I have played where I can see this happening. Ballyhack, Moraine CC, The Golf Club. Ballyhack, for example, I played from the tips on a pretty windy day and it was my first time seeing the course. Same situation as playing PH #2, really. It is a bucket-list course, and I knew I likely wouldn't be back. The course was playing so long, I wasn't driving the ball in areas where I could get some roll on my tee shots. 

Anyway, not to derail the thread again, but I could see this kind of thing happening at #2. Never played it personally, but if you're approaching the greens with a long iron or hybrid, I doubt you would hold many, and they are notorious for being very difficult to chip and putt to save those shots. 

PS- You can say whatever you want, but if you don't think billchao and Erik were being dismissive and condescending, then you're just being disingenuous. I don't really care, either way, though. Everyone has a different experience, and we're all experts on the internet, right?

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, Sandy Lie said:

I see the Forum Lawyers are out today. What I know about Erik is from his profile and his website. What I’ve read there to me he sounds like a good guy. Wouldn’t mind playing a round with him. His replies here to me seem out of character.   I guess my mistake here is that I should email him rather than have members chime in. But feel free.

Please don’t put emotions into the text when you are reading other’s posts. We all tend to do that and we feel the posters are condescending or insulting when if you read the text objectively, they are just sharing a different opinion in most cases. Erik certainly wasn’t insulting you. He feels your position on this subject is off base, as do others. Some others agree with you. That is a healthy discussion/debate. 
 

It also helps if you bring data to the discussion. Sometimes our anecdotal experiences don’t match up with data for the general population. 

[Vinsk]

On 5/11/2020 at 4:08 PM, Sandy Lie said:

I’ve played with many guests at Pinehurst who play the tips (perhaps for the experience?) who would have a better time play one tee box up

I’m not sure you’re really the one to decide how a player enjoys his/her round. As long as POP is respected maybe a player wants to play the tips for no other reason than wanting to. I play the tips at my course often as it’s good practice for me and I enjoy the changes across the course I get to see.