Race and Inclusion in America and Beyond

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

The whole BLM movement is trying to change policies, and therefore is political by definition.

It isn’t, and your constant arguing that it is does not advance the conversation one bit.

[ghalfaire]

9 hours ago, saevel25 said:

That feels like a cop-out. I can have a discussion about race and it will not be political. People choose to make topics political to bring in tribalistic mentality. 
 

I disagree that BLM is a political organization. The concept of BLM has been hijacked by the media to make advertisement money. It’s been hijacked by people who want to get political gain, but it isn’t a political organization like the Democratic Party. 

Here is why I said BLM is a political organization: 

black+lives+matter - Bing

I suppose one might say it isn't political, but the description of BLM sounds political to me.  I do realize there are various factions that attest to that banner, but none-the-less it exists as an organization and looks political to me.  When  you exist to make changes in laws, you are a political organization, by definition.

Finally I'll say it is ignorant to believe that any race is homogeneous. Just because you belong to a specific race doesn't mean you are just same as everyone else belonging to that race.  We are all individuals and race is only one characteristic.  

I don't believe I copped out, I said Black Lives Matter. What more is there to say?  I can have a discussion about race although it is difficult to do without involving politics in today's world.  So here is my discussion.  None of us had a choice as to what race we belong to.  Nor can we control what others of our race do or do not do.  We can only fix ourselves.  So until we get back to the concept of we are each responsible for ourselves and quit painting each other with these very broad bushes, we won't be able to fix this problem.  Cher had it right when she said "if you look in the mirror and don't like what you see, you are looking at the only person on Earth that can fix it". 

[iacas]

Guys, enough of the meta discussion. There are political components to BLM, but we aren't talking about those parts. It's that simple.

Discuss it or don't. I've seen it discussed elsewhere without getting into politics. There are many, many, many things we can discuss that are both ON-TOPIC and NON-POLITICAL.

If you cannot, then don't post.

That simple.

17 minutes ago, ghalfaire said:

I can have a discussion about race although it is difficult to do without involving politics in today's world.

It's really not.

17 minutes ago, ghalfaire said:

Finally I'll say it is ignorant to believe that any race is homogeneous.

I searched for the characters "homog" and found nothing except your post. So I don't know what you're talking about with this.

[colin007]

16 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

And wow... no, it means just the opposite, but you can make whatever assumption you want to virtue signal. 

I wasn't even talking about social programs. 

What are the results here for urban areas?

1) lower incomes - and day care is expensive, but grandma can take care of the kids, right? Oh she's working too.

2) lower incomes mean lower tax revenues

3) lower tax revenues mean lower property values

4) lower property values mean lousy school districts

Do you see where this leads? And then throw in the War on Drugs, the 1994 Crime Bill, gangs (but some cities don't even call them that anymore - that problem is solved - it's just teens running around with guns shooting each other over turf)

Morgan Freeman said something like "Stop calling me black and I'll stop calling you white. We can start there."

My bad, I misunderstood. Your original reply seemed out of place, but that was my fault.

[GolfLug]

 It seems for lot of petty crime calls involving blacks the default is 'guilty until proven innocent'.

Seems backwards to me. With that kind of mindset, tragedy will always loom within a moment's notice. We can talk about socio-economic factors but that's just not right at any level. 

[saevel25]

Stories and Data

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Reflections on race, riots, and police

 

[ghalfaire]

22 hours ago, iacas said:

There are political components to BLM, but we aren't talking about those parts. It's that simple

I searched for the characters "homog" and found nothing except your post. So I don't know what you're talking about with this.

I used the word homogeneous as a way of saying the obvious of that you cannot assume that because a person belongs to the same race as another person,  that they all believe the same things or want the same things based on that one characteristic, race.  The fact that not everyone wants the same thing make solving the problem of racism more complex. 

So with that I'll really retire this time.  The subject is just to explosive and, to me at least, difficult to discuss without angering anyone.

BTW: I did learn some new perspectives reading some of the previous post.  So glad you started this.

[iacas]

The Story of the Black Band-Aid - The Atlantic

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A reinvention of "flesh-colored"

How this took this long is a good example of many things.

[iacas]

Atlanta Police Chief Resigns After Officer Shoots and Kills a Black Man - The New York Times

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Rayshard Brooks had fallen asleep in his vehicle at a Wendy’s drive-through. He was shot after grabbing a Taser from an officer, the authorities said, prompting fresh unrest in the city.

What other, better ways could this have been handled? Why was a man running away shot and killed in the back by police?

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Atlanta Police Chief Resigns After Officer Shoots and Kills a Black Man - The New York Times

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Rayshard Brooks had fallen asleep in his vehicle at a Wendy’s drive-through. He was shot after grabbing a Taser from an officer, the authorities said, prompting fresh unrest in the city.

What other, better ways could this have been handled? Why was a man running away shot and killed in the back by police?

I watched the video on this. This doesn't excuse the cop from shooting the man in the back. The man, who was drunk, stole the taser from the cop. As he was running away he turned around and shot the taser at the cop. 

This is were training comes in. Knowing that in most cases a taser will not kill you. Knowing the guy is unarmed and fleeing, and that you can probably apprehend him later on. I suspect when they did the sobriety test that they got his ID. 

In no way should that cop have pulled his gun and shot that man. 

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Knowing that in most cases a taser will not kill you.

He probably wasn't even going to hit the officer with the taser, from what I've understood.

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I suspect when they did the sobriety test that they got his ID. 

They had his CAR. He wasn't going far. They could have chased him down.

[billchao]

26 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

In no way should that cop have pulled his gun and shot that man. 

Agreed. They weren't even running that fast, pretty sure he could have just caught up and tackled the guy.

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

He probably wasn't even going to hit the officer with the taser, from what I've understood.

Even if he did, it's non-lethal. And as I understand it, there's a good chance it probably wouldn't have done anything to him even if he was hit by it. They're apparently unreliable.

[saevel25]

9 minutes ago, billchao said:

They're apparently unreliable.

That and the cop is probably wearing a BP Vest. 

To me, it goes back to training. Why is their impulse/habit is to pull their gun? 

[billchao]

12 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Why is their impulse/habit is to pull their gun?

Wish I could tell you. A cop drew his gun on me once. Didn't occur to me until just now how f***ed up that situation was and how little justification he had to draw his firearm.

[ChetlovesMer]

I almost lost faith in humanity today. A good friend of mine told me when he arrived at his workplace this morning he found somebody had hung a noose in his work area. He said he was taken aback because although he doesn't know all the folks with whom he works. He does know a lot of them. The ones he does know, he considers friends. (As I assume most people do with their coworkers.) He's the only black man who works there. Although there are a couple other people of color, a couple of Hispanic guys. He said he took it down and didn't mention it to anyone. He said he spent the whole day wondering "Who?" and "Why?" The folks he works with are all of above average education and of at least descent economic standard. 

My buddy's like a 50 year-old-dude, college-educated, kind, gentle, married for like 25 years, plays with my kids when he and his wife come over for dinner. He and I discussed it and neither of us come up with a reason for that. 

Why should anyone have to put up with something like that? I would love to know who did it and just ask them "Why?" 

I don't get it.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Why should anyone have to put up with something like that? I would love to know who did it and just ask them "Why?" 

I'd do more to that person than ask them why.

Firing. I'm not all that legally knowledgeable, but I feel like he/she could be arrested, too.

Despicable.

How are we not past this kind of shit in 2020?!?!

[jmanbooyaa]

@ChetlovesMer that is unbelievable. Reprehensible to be honest. 

[ChetlovesMer]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

Despicable.

How are we not past this kind of shit in 2020?!?!

I agree. Especially at your, and his, place of employment. What is going through a person's mind? Did this person wake up in the morning and go "You know what would be cool....." ??? I really and truly don't understand it. 

8 hours ago, jmanbooyaa said:

@ChetlovesMer that is unbelievable. Reprehensible to be honest. 

Again, I just don't understand it. I truly would like to know why a person would choose to do that????