Race and Inclusion in America and Beyond

[iacas]

So? It’s not only not the topic here, the response to the off topic stuff isn’t being said here.

[woodzie264]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Nobody has said that. And I thought the first post was pretty clear about the “all lives matter” stuff. That’s not the topic here.

Often those weren’t the protesters.

They were people taking advantage of a situation and were not connected to the protests except to use them as a cover or an excuse.

Gotcha - sorry about all that then. Admittedly, didn’t read you first post! Feel free to delete the post. 
 

I will say that I’m learning more and growing in my understanding via this movement

Edited June 7, 2020 by woodzie264

[metaswinger]

7 hours ago, gjunkie57 said:

I just returned from the Ride for Justice in Harford County sponsored by Black Lives Matter and other community groups.  As a Black Man I had to have ‘The Talk’ with not only my children but other youth in how to deal with the police. These problems go way back.  Its a responsibility, concern and yes a burden to make sure our youth make it out of an encounter with the police.

Death should not be the penalty for ‘resisting’. 

This must stop.  

Thank you for your comments.  There are people here who have never heard about 'The Talk'.  Right now, it's obviously a difficult and really stressful time.  Be sure to take care of yourself, whether that is hitting a few balls or a glass of bourbon in the evening.  This is unprecedented.

9 hours ago, iacas said:

Some simple rules. If you cannot agree to them, do not participate. It's that simple.

1. This topic isn't in and of itself political or religious. Do not make it such - the rules we have re: "no politics or religion" still stand.
2. No "all lives matter" bullshit. You'd be a dick if you went to a fundraiser for pancreatic cancer or into the terminally ill wing at St. Jude's and shouted "all cancers matter!" and you're a dick if you bring any "all lives matter" stuff to this discussion. Of course they do, but all lives are not the topic.
3. Moderators will not be deleting any posts here in this topic, but will be a bit quicker on the warning trigger finger. Warnings will not — and never are — be given for "disagreeing." They'll be given if you violate the normal rules:
   • no politics or religion
   • no ad hominem attacks (attacks on ideas or opinions are fine, attacks on the people saying them are not)
   • if you have nothing constructive to say, don't say anything. Nobody is forcing you to participate in this topic.
   • use some common sense.
   • etc.
4. No white knighting. We'd all like to think that we're "not racist" or whatever, but virtually everyone has subconscious biases, and this is a time for listening and learning and growing.

 

Erik, you’re a curious nut.  I’m shocked (and heartened) you started this thread.  You typically take an overtly heavy hand in calling out anything that might ruffle the feathers of this demographic and now this?  Good on you, mate. But let’s be clear, this is indeed political.   Every action we take, decision we make or conclusion we reach rests on assumptions not everyone would affirm. This is the realm of the political.  

As a nation, it’s an obvious turning point.  We tried everything to ignore football players kneeling to bring the issue to attention and now that effort has been revealed as farce.  We have to re-think policing from the bottom up.  The problems are numerous.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, metaswinger said:

But let’s be clear, this is indeed political.

No, it isn't.

It's social. It's human.

And what I'm asking of people is to leave the politics to the side of it. You can be Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Marxist, whatever… and side with BLM and see value in changing this piece of the world, or the U.S.

And I don't know what your "heavy handed" and "this demographic" means. Many people, even long-time members, seem to be completely unaware that we have a moderating team here at TST.

[metaswinger]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, it isn't.

 Every action we take, decision we make or conclusion we reach rests on assumptions not everyone would affirm. This is the realm of the political.  

Even choosing 538 as a source rests on assumptions not everyone would make.  (btw, I don't have a problem with you citing them).

[iacas]

1 minute ago, metaswinger said:

 Every action we take, decision we make or conclusion we reach rests on assumptions not everyone would affirm. This is the realm of the political.  

Summary: "Everything is political."

Again, and for the last time: no, it isn't.

2 minutes ago, metaswinger said:

Even choosing 538 as a source rests on assumptions not everyone would make.  (btw, I don't have a problem with you citing them).

I didn't "cite them as a source."

I posted an article I'd queued up to read so that others might discuss it.

[metaswinger]

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

Summary: "Everything is political."

That's not what I said.

Quote

I’ve heard that police unions are a problem.

Tell me this isn't a political statement.  Again, I happen to totally agree with it but how is it different than the question "Would you play a Trump course now?"

[iacas]

Just now, metaswinger said:

That's not what I said.

It is.

1 minute ago, metaswinger said:

Tell me this isn't a political statement.

It's not.

And the "Would you play…" topic was started — BY YOU — before the rule about politics. People still post in it, and if they avoid being "political," we've allowed them to do so.

This meta commentary isn't serving any purpose, so that's that.

P.S. I don't know if police unions are a problem. I've heard it, so reading up on that is on my list of things to do to educate myself. Among other things.

[saevel25]

9 hours ago, iacas said:

P.S. I don't know if police unions are a problem. I've heard it, so reading up on that is on my list of things to do to educate myself. Among other things.

I read a story from a woman who worked for the police, not actually a police woman. She said its like the good old boys club. There is a certain set of norms you must follow due to the culture in that particular police department. If you didn't act how the older cops wanted you to act then you would get ridiculed for it. I am not sure that is linked to a police union thing. 

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I read a story from a woman who worked for the police, not actually a police woman. She said its like the good old boys club. There is a certain set of norms you must follow due to the culture in that particular police department. If you didn't act how the older cops wanted you to act then you would get ridiculed for it. I am not sure that is linked to a police union thing. 

That may not be, but that doesn’t mean both can’t be true.

I read about how the FL police officer had something like, well, here:

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article243234261.html

That isn’t completely a union thing either, but it’s not not a union thing.

Heck, maybe the unions should be more proactive instead of just being protective. I don’t know.

[RBenn1701]

20 hours ago, iacas said:

 

1. No "all lives matter" bullshit. You'd be a dick if you went to a fundraiser for pancreatic cancer or into the terminally ill wing at St. Jude's and shouted "all cancers matter!" and you're a dick if you bring any "all lives matter" stuff to this discussion. Of course they do, but all lives are not the topic.

..How can you insist this is non-political, but then make a biased political statement in the same breath? Other people's opinions and no less valid than yours; just because you find a particular statement  or stance "racist" or somehow objectionable does not make it so.

"You are allowed to talk about this topic, but only if you abide by MY standards of what's acceptable.." and then to pass it off a non-political. This is what's wrong with discourse in recent years.

[iacas]

52 minutes ago, RBenn1701 said:

..How can you insist this is non-political, but then make a biased political statement in the same breath? Other people's opinions and no less valid than yours; just because you find a particular statement  or stance "racist" or somehow objectionable does not make it so.

What I said is not political nor have I said anything or anyone is racist.

Your comment is however completely meta. No more please.

Discuss the topic or don’t.

[ChetlovesMer]

13 hours ago, woodzie264 said:

I’m not sure where the logic of destroying property of innocent people/business and showing complete disregard for the law and rights of others is somehow justified and, in the minds of those committing these crimes, should result in improvement/advancements in race relations and the rights of blacks. It’s counterproductive and totally illogical.

I take your point well here. It always frustrates me that there are folks who try to take people's pain, people's frustration, people just trying to do what is within their rights by our constitution. There are folks who take that and use it as an opportunity to steal a big screen TV from Target, to smash and grab, to shatter windows with bricks or set fires to cars. Those folks who do that make it so much harder to figure out how to fix our problems. They frustrate me. 

I would like to ask that we try to avoid associating these folks with the people out there who are truly hurting right now. 

In my life I've been lucky enough to visit maybe 30 countries. I've lived in 3. I believe the US has the best system going. We have so many advantages over other countries it's almost mine-blowing. We need to find a way for all of those advantages to be available to everyone. 

I don't know what black people have to go through. Not first hand. But I can acknowledge that I see a lot of them are scared. I can acknowledge that a lot of them are hurting. And they shouldn't have to be. 

[saevel25]

22 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

There are folks who take that and use it as an opportunity to steal a big screen TV from Target, to smash and grab, to shatter windows with bricks or set fires to cars. Those folks who do that make it so much harder to figure out how to fix our problems. They frustrate me. 

Also folks who purposely go to these peaceful locations to try to incite riots.

 

[chilepepper]

It doesn’t matter which stance or opinion I have on this.....

I will be branded X or Y by one group or another. Why bother playing

[Papa Steve 55]

15 minutes ago, chilepepper said:

It doesn’t matter which stance or opinion I have on this.....

I will be branded X or Y by one group or another. Why bother playing

Your a 16 index, chances are you will never shoot even par. I hear fishing is fun.

[iacas]

59 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I would like to ask that we try to avoid associating these folks with the people out there who are truly hurting right now. 

This, please.

[boogielicious]

16 minutes ago, chilepepper said:

It doesn’t matter which stance or opinion I have on this.....

I will be branded X or Y by one group or another. Why bother playing

Because if we talk about, maybe we can figure out a way to improve things. Not discussing will never accomplish that.