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Bump-n-MI

Can a Low Capper Beat a LPGA Pro… Results!

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Results from round 1:

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Groupings: Pro #1, Pro #2, Me, Member #3 (member #1 played behind us in a separate group with single digits). Temps were in the 70’s, winds steady out of the east at 10mph, greens were lightening, and pin placements were extremely difficult (Sunday best per our greens keeper). 

  • Pro #1 - 70
  • Pro #2 - 72
  • Member #1 - 68
  • Member #2 (me) - 76
  • Member #3 - 75

I started off bogie, bogie, double…..hard to recoup from that.  Nerves definitely got the best of me and anything routine became a mental struggle (i.e. I was a complete head case).  40 on the front and 36 on the back.  I missed way too may fairways and found myself scrambling the entire front.  Both pros played decent but they quickly learned anything above the hole is trouble.  Member #3 was +1 going into 17 and crapped the bed.  Member #1 shoots 68 in his sleep so it was an average outing.  

Lessons learned:  Both pros made mistakes but their mistakes were consistent.  Misses were ALWAYS right.  Short game was decent.  But they struggled on the greens.  Distance off the tee was comparable to mine but there was a big discrepancy on club selection with approach shots.  They ALWAYS clubbed down and smoothed their swings.  I, on the other hand, prefer(d) full swings.  Proximity to the pin wasn’t even close.  I found myself, on average, of ~8-10 feet outside their approach shots. 

 

Stay tuned because the results for round 2 and 3 change…….. 

 

Edited by Bump-n-MI

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9 hours ago, Bump-n-MI said:

Member #1 - effortlessly long, 290+ if I had to guess, however, he always plays to his strengths (i.e. lots of 3 woods and irons)

A +2.8 isn’t hitting driver off the tee usually? That seems odd....

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1 minute ago, Vinsk said:

A +2.8 isn’t hitting driver off the tee usually? That seems odd....

Why?  Quite a few 350-380 yd par 4's.  50 -70 yard approach shots on rock hard lightning fast greens are way less desirable than 90-110 yd approach shots.  Holes 3, 5, 7, 12, 14, and 17 all require shot shape off the tee.   

 

Both pros hit 3 wood off many of the holes listed above.   

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23 minutes ago, Bump-n-MI said:

Why?  Quite a few 350-380 yd par 4's.  50 -70 yard approach shots on rock hard lightning fast greens are way less desirable than 90-110 yd approach shots

I don’t know this particular course...but I don’t think shot statistics would support this. Right? Proximity to the hole from 50-70 vs 90-110? Show me where the 90-110 produces shorter birdie putts. 

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26 minutes ago, Bump-n-MI said:

Quite a few 350-380 yd par 4's.  50 -70 yard approach shots on rock hard lightning fast greens are way less desirable than 90-110 yd approach shots.

Are the greens harder/fater than the PGA Tour? Because… if not, then no, they're not "less desirable" at all.

https://thesandtrap.com/gallery/image/41-strokes-gained-table-5-2/

Those numbers hold up (trend similarly) for basically all golfers.

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Off topic but I will answer the original question.  The +2.8 that averages 290+ hits more 3 woods and irons than drivers. Why?  Because he feels that gives him the best opportunity to score. Now, with that said, he played in the Michigan AM at Boyne a couple weeks ago (7100 yds) and his club selection changed drastically.  Position outweighs distance where we play.  As for the pros, guess they approach the game with a similar a mindset.  Curious as to why you guys are questioning this.....

Throw the stats out the window  @Vinsk and @iacas, thick rough, tight fairways, hard and elevated greens, and 50-70 yd approach shots are not conducive to birdies at our course.  

 

So, any guesses on round 2?

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8 minutes ago, Bump-n-MI said:

Throw the stats out the window  @Vinsk and @iacas, thick rough, tight fairways, hard and elevated greens, and 50-70 yd approach shots are not conducive to birdies at our course.

No thanks… the stats are illustrative of what has happened and what will continue to happen. The PGA Tour has thick rough, too, and you didn't answer my question. I doubt your greens are faster/firmer than on the PGA Tour.

And don't get me wrong: I'm not saying always hit it to 50-70 instead of 110, but… most of the time, it makes more sense to hit from 60 than 110. A few million shots hit by players of many ability levels say so.

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1 hour ago, Bump-n-MI said:

Distance off the tee was comparable to mine but there was a big discrepancy on club selection with approach shots.  They ALWAYS clubbed down and smoothed their swings.  I, on the other hand, prefer(d) full swings.  Proximity to the pin wasn’t even close.  I found myself, on average, of ~8-10 feet outside their approach shots. 

If you're hitting, say, a 9-iron approach shot, do you take a full swing, or are you already doing something like this with your shorter clubs?

 

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

No thanks… the stats are illustrative of what has happened and what will continue to happen. The PGA Tour has thick rough, and you missed my point: I doubt your greens are faster/firmer than on the PGA Tour.

Didn't miss your point at all. He is NOT a tour player, just a dynamite amateur that chooses to play to his strengths, stats or no stats. Our greens are fast and firm, and agreed, not to PGA standards. His club selection is completely irrelevant to this thread.    

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15 minutes ago, Shindig said:

If you're hitting, say, a 9-iron approach shot, do you take a full swing, or are you already doing something like this with your shorter clubs?

 

Good thread Shindig.  I close my stance and shorten my swing on any P-60 shot.  One big difference is I always play the ball middle - back.  However, this approach doesn't lend itself to great results where I play.  As mentioned above, our greens are hard, elevated, and small.  A higher trajectory is much more desirable.  Something to work on before the club championship next month!  

 

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20 minutes ago, Bump-n-MI said:

Didn't miss your point at all. He is NOT a tour player

All the more reason to hit the shots he can hit closer to the hole.

Not in every situation, but hitting to 110 instead of 60 is not often the better play.

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4 minutes ago, iacas said:

All the more reason to hit the shots he can hit closer to the hole.

Not in every situation, but hitting to 110 instead of 60 is not often the better play.

Yep, agree.  But as mentioned in my previous post he chooses to play to his strengths. 

 

We are veering way off course.  The intent of this thread was to provide a real-world experience of low cappers playing against established women professionals.  I have been around this game an awfully long time, had the luxury of playing against some Nike Tour players back in the mid 90's and some senior tour players in the early 2000's...both times I was throttled and left in awe of just how good those guys were/are.   However, this opportunity to play with the women was nothing short of extraordinary.  And I know many of you have often wondered how your game would fare against women professionals.....hopefully this thread will provide a little insight from multiple perspectives.   

 

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13 hours ago, Bump-n-MI said:

How many of you low cappers think you can beat mid-range Symetra Tour player?

Let me set the table.  My club has 2 fulltime Symetra Tour players slapping it around with us hacks until their season opens up in 2 weeks.   The course plays to 6300 yds, par 70

Realistically the men have three advantages.

1) Length - Here I am assuming the men are bigger and stronger and all of you are playing off the same tees.

2) Strength - In a scenario where you are in deep rough, in a plugged bunker lie etc, where strength is an asset, like gouging out a ball.

3) Home course experience and knowledge - Yes, the ladies are members of the course, but they will probably play it a couple of times a year at best, whereas the men will probably be playing it 2 to 3 times a week.

If the men are able to convert this properly, maybe the +2 golfer has a chance.  The scratch and 2 golfers will be out of their depth, and the +2 golfer will be struggling unless things go his way.

I normally would have said not a hope in hell, especially against the Solheim Cup player, but the above give the +2 a glimmer of hope, though nowhere close to 50:50. More like 20:80.

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12 hours ago, Bump-n-MI said:

I'll add some more info.  Both pros hit it a long way.

  • Pro #1 - 265yds (tour stats, actually let the LPGA tour in driving distance a few years ago)
  • Pro #2 - 270yds (no tour stats, but she was consistently out-driving Pro #1)
  • Member #1 - effortlessly long, 290+ if I had to guess, however, he always plays to his strengths (i.e. lots of 3 woods and irons)
  • Me - effortlessly short 265ish but hit 75+% of fairways
  • Member #2 - longest I've ever played with (and I've been playing for 40 years).  Won't even throw a number out there for fear of being called a BS'r. 

Looking at the 2020 Symetra player priority list...from your 1st post....I thought it was Kristy McPherson...she's won under $2.5M...but she's not a long hitter....then I thought it might be Vicky Hurst (a fairly long hitter).....but she's toiled longer on the Symetra vs. LPGA...and won about only $1.6M...both have been on Solheim teams.

If #1 really has been a LPGA leader in driving distance a few years ago...I'm thinking Joanna Klatten...but she's made less than $500k and not been on a Solheim.

So unless the info on Pro #1 is incorrect....I'm struggling who on the Symetra fits the info provided.

The members had/have a big intangible.....course knowledge....IMO....it might be worth 1 or 2 strokes per rd.....IMO....member #1 had a bit on an advantage not having to play in the group with the gals (nerves) and the ability to watch them a bit in the group ahead....hope he plays with the gals in rd 2 & 3.

The Symetra pros play for a living...no surprise on their process, work ethic and day to day muscle memory....I believe the members all have regular day jobs and just naturally talented golfers.

Symetra pros are talented.....and yes we are not comparing them to the LPGA premier pros in this thread....but there's a bit difference in talent and mental toughness of elite LPGA pros.....especially the top 30.

Glad you're having a great time playing with the gals....it's always GREAT playing golf with really TALENTED female golfers which is so rare to play a random rd of golf with.

Edited by Mr22putt

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16 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

I normally would have said not a hope in hell, especially against the Solheim Cup player, but the above give the +2 a glimmer of hope, though nowhere close to 50:50. More like 20:80.

I haven't done all the research....but the only current Symetra players from Solheim Cups that I can surmise are McPherson and Hurst (2009 and 2011, respectively and only once each) and that was a long time ago and both are out of form and why they are now on the Symetra tour.

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1 hour ago, Bump-n-MI said:

Yep, agree.  But as mentioned in my previous post he chooses to play to his strengths. 

 

We are veering way off course.  The intent of this thread was to provide a real-world experience of low cappers playing against established women professionals.  I have been around this game an awfully long time, had the luxury of playing against some Nike Tour players back in the mid 90's and some senior tour players in the early 2000's...both times I was throttled and left in awe of just how good those guys were/are.   However, this opportunity to play with the women was nothing short of extraordinary.  And I know many of you have often wondered how your game would fare against women professionals.....hopefully this thread will provide a little insight from multiple perspectives.   

 

Actually discussed this a number of times in the past on this forum.

Mathematically it’s easy to calculate.

A genuine male scratch golfer, keeps his card pretty easily on the LPGA tour running about middle of the pack…

Edited by David in FL

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12 hours ago, David in FL said:

Actually discussed this a number of times in the past on this forum

awesome, but I didn't search the form.

12 hours ago, David in FL said:

Mathematically it’s easy to calculate

Sure, but there are variables that cannot be calculated into a mathematical equation. 

12 hours ago, David in FL said:

A genuine male scratch golfer, keeps his card pretty easily on the LPGA tour running about middle of the pack…

"genuine" eh.  Welp, I'm a "genuine" scratch and I got my butt kicked the first day I played with them.

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I’m kind of confused at all the arguments in this thread.  @Bump-n-MI is just here providing a bit of insight on his real life experience, in real time.     There’s no argument to be had here.  

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