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PAC-12 Players Demand Pay

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46 minutes ago, David in FL said:

And just like that, Mississippi State or The University of Delaware never get a chance for another Jerry Rice or Joe Flacco again...

as big as the disparity in recruiting is now, can you only imagine what it would be if one program could pay their players and another couldn’t?

You think Jerry Rice went to Miss. Valley State because the big time college football programs were not paying money? There is so much under the table money being shuffled around, especially in SEC territory, players were getting paid.

Also, Rice grew up in a time were people had to drive to high schools and find the athletes. If Jerry Rice was in today's recruiting system, he would have a 4-5 star ranking and be known by every major college team out there. He went to highschool in a county that only had 47,600 people in 2010 census. It probably went to a very small unknown high school during a time when it would be very hard to find him. 

Also, Joe Flacco transferred to University of Delaware. He was a backup at University of Pittsburgh for his first two seasons. The only reason he got drafted high was because he stood out at the Senior Bowl and combine. Also, that year the QB's depth was not the greatest. Matt Ryan went top 5. Then you have Flacco going 18th, and Brian Brohm going 56th. 

41 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Really? They’re playing a sport. Come on...you’re being a little ridiculous the other direction. 
As a resident I worked 120hrs/week and was paid less than a nurse. Sorry...playing football or basketball is hardly an indentured worker. Yeah..no.

Indentured workers is a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed contract to work with out pay for a period of  time. 

College football players are technically free, but they sign a contract with the school to work for a period of time with out pay. If they transfer they are to sit out a year (a penalty). In most cases the schools can also tell you were you can or can not transfer to (another penalty against their mobility to play at another school).  There really isn't any payment because they dictate which degrees you should be taking, and most likely would probably lose your scholarship from lack of performance on the field if you choose a more rigorous penalty (no value degree, and another penalty). 

2019 NFL Draft Analysis – Average Guaranteed Dollars by Round
1st Round – $16,939,370
2nd Round – $3,786853
3rd Round – $946,211
4th Round – $692,925
5th Round – $301,369
6th Round – $161,745
7th Round – $88,795

Un-drafted Free Agents get $5,000

You are looking at 224 players getting on average 3.2 million. It's a very sharp drop off after the first round. Excluding the top 32 players the average is $980,000. Again, that is only for a very small percentage of football players. 

That means at maximum 98-99% of football players (D-1) in college barely get anything of value. There are a small few that get worth while degrees, but most don't. They put in 4 years of blood, sweat, and tears to make colleges 10.3 billion dollars in football revenue, and most get nothing out of it. Sorry if I don't see it more on the side of indentured workers than a free market. 

Not to belittle the situation you went through. The residency set up in the hospital system is complete idiocy in my opinion. 

Edited by saevel25

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2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

You think Jerry Rice went to Miss. Valley State because the big time college football programs were not paying money? There is so much under the table money being shuffled around, especially in SEC territory, players were getting paid.

Also, Rice grew up in a time were people had to drive to high schools and find the athletes. If Jerry Rice was in today's recruiting system, he would have a 4-5 star ranking and be known by every major college team out there. He went to highschool in a county that only had 47,600 people in 2010 census. It probably went to a very small unknown high school during a time when it would be very hard to find him. 

Also, Joe Flacco transferred to University of Delaware. He was a backup at University of Pittsburgh for his first two seasons. The only reason he got drafted high was because he stood out at the Senior Bowl and combine. Also, that year the QB's depth was not the greatest. Matt Ryan went top 5. Then you have Flacco going 18th, and Brian Brohm going 56th. 

Indentured workers is a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed contract to work with out pay for a period of  time. 

College football players are technically free, but they sign a contract with the school to work for a period of time with out pay. If they transfer they are to sit out a year (a penalty). In most cases the schools can also tell you were you can or can not transfer to (another penalty against their mobility to play at another school).  There really isn't any payment because they dictate which degrees you should be taking, and most likely would probably lose your scholarship from lack of performance on the field if you choose a more rigorous penalty (no value degree, and another penalty). 

2019 NFL Draft Analysis – Average Guaranteed Dollars by Round
1st Round – $16,939,370
2nd Round – $3,786853
3rd Round – $946,211
4th Round – $692,925
5th Round – $301,369
6th Round – $161,745
7th Round – $88,795

Un-drafted Free Agents get $5,000

You are looking at 224 players getting on average 3.2 million. It's a very sharp drop off after the first round. Excluding the top 32 players the average is $980,000. Again, that is only for a very small percentage of football players. 

That means at maximum 98-99% of football players (D-1) in college barely get anything of value. There are a small few that get worth while degrees, but most don't. They put in 4 years of blood, sweat, and tears to make colleges 10.3 billion dollars in football revenue, and most get nothing out of it. Sorry if I don't see it more on the side of indentured workers than a free market. 

Not to belittle the situation you went through. The residency set up in the hospital system is complete idiocy in my opinion. 

I pulled 2 names out of my hat.  There are plenty of examples.  The point remains, if one team can pay their athletes, they’ll be at an enormous advantage.

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1 minute ago, David in FL said:

I pulled 2 names out of my hat.  There are plenty of examples.  The point remains, if one team can pay their athletes, they’ll be at an enormous advantage.

The advantage is there already. Kids go to schools that can develop them and put them into the NFL. 

Clemson, Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia, etc... There is a reason why certain teams are always in the top 10 of recruiting yearly. If we had true parity with college football recruiting then it would be more wide spread, and Alabama wouldn't win 33-40% of the Nat. Championships because they out recruit and out train everyone. 

Where is the extra advantage at? The top teams in the SEC? The top teams in the B10? OU and Texas in the B12? What teams in the past have actually dethrone these guys from being the teams that are year in and year out contenders for national championships? 

Heck it might actually help the smaller schools who might be able to pool their money to get some more 4-5 stars to go there. They can make the case they have more money to spend on some elite talent versus a place like Alabama who might have to spread it out more to keep players there. 

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6 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I can appreciate the revenue these athletes generate for the college so I’m open for discussion. You’ve made some good points as has @saevel25.

I think he has too.

Look, I'm not saying they deserve a ton of money or something.

But they get pretty well screwed over and are the ones doing the actual work. The fans are rewarded. The coaches are rewarded. The universities are rewarded. The players… most of them… don't even get an NFL contract. So what's their reward? Often… a useless degree? And if they're injured, often not even that, as their scholarship gets pulled.

4 hours ago, David in FL said:

And just like that, Mississippi State or The University of Delaware never get a chance for another Jerry Rice or Joe Flacco again...

I think it's hilarious you reached in and pulled out… Joe Flacco.

4 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Really? They’re playing a sport. Come on...you’re being a little ridiculous the other direction.

Major League Baseball players are "playing a sport." Should they be okay playing for, what, minimum wage?

4 hours ago, Vinsk said:

As a resident I worked 120hrs/week and was paid less than a nurse. Sorry...playing football or basketball is hardly an indentured worker. Yeah..no.

Not remotely the same thing.=

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

I pulled 2 names out of my hat.  There are plenty of examples.  The point remains, if one team can pay their athletes, they’ll be at an enormous advantage.

Like Matt said, the advantage is already there. The money wouldn't shift that advantage around much.

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Aren't (select) college players already allowed to make money off their skill set via marketing themselves?  I say "select" because the poor lineman toiling away in the trenches opening holes for the star running back or protecting the star QB will probably get diddly

Which brings us to... who gets paid what?  Has that been outlined yet?

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2 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Aren't (select) college players already allowed to make money off their skill set via marketing themselves? 

By marketing, you mean making money based off their likeness, not till 2023 and only in California. 

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Which brings us to... who gets paid what?  Has that been outlined yet?

Nope, it would be based solely on a players ability to market themselves. The rub on that, they can't be wearing any of their college football gear since that is trademarked by the college. Will the QB really make money if they can't wear the jersey? 

I agree with Erik on this. There can be a lot of quality of life decisions made to the system already that could address a lot of the issues. 

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18 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

By marketing, you mean making money based off their likeness, not till 2023 and only in California. 

Thanks for the clarification on that.  College football is not my area of expertise... so I was kinda winging it.  Though by 2023 things could change.  On that note, won't California schools have a huge advantage?  So much for the Huskies winning the Pac 12 Conference in 2023...

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6 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Thanks for the clarification on that.  College football is not my area of expertise... so I was kinda winging it.  Though by 2023 things could change.  On that note, won't California schools have a huge advantage?  So much for the Huskies winning the Pac 12 Conference in 2023...

Not if the other 4 power conferences just don’t play football with them.
 

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4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Not if the other 4 power conferences just don’t play football with them.
 

But it'll be disadvantageous to the teams from Washington, Oregon, Arizona, Colorado and Utah.  And it stands to be unfair to the weekly polls.  A California team will be #1.  So much for Ohio State ever being #1 again.  Speaking of Ohio State... I have two families on my street who are Buckeye alumni.  In one case the husband and wife both have red cars.  A silver house.  And they run the Ohio State flag up the flagpost every Saturday in the Autumn.

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21 hours ago, saevel25 said:

1. A lot of sports are supported by football or basketball revenues only. Also, a lot of that revenue goes towards scholarships, so they are getting paid in some regard. Do they think that tennis or swimming actually bring in revenue? I can see some sort of stipend, but 50% revenue is a bit absurd. I bet most schools actually don't have 50% of their revenue left after paying for other sports, facilities, staff, etc.. I am not even sure most college athletics actually make money with their athletic department.

2. I am OK with this option, because it basically exits when a student gets a 5th year of eligibility when they go to graduate school. They may have to redshirt one year, but they get the benefit of being on the team and then playing four more years. 

3. I never knew this was an issue. Hey, if someone doesn't want to be an activist and takes your spot because you spend more time being an activist versus being an athlete than tough. I am all for this as long as they don't get the double standard of expecting they have a spot guaranteed to them on a team. 

4. I am fine with this. 

5. This will require a change to how recruiting goes in NCAA football. They have a maximum # of scholarships available. So, if they go pro, and they're are not more scholarships available, how would they come back? I agree that they shouldn't loose eligibility to play NCAA football if they go early and didn't get drafted. I am not sure that a school should be required to hold a spot for them. They may need to go play at a different school. Though, I am not sure how many three year or two year redshirt athletes don't get drafted. I can understand a senior, who doesn't have any eligibility left. This could create a big logistical nightmare if they allow for a standard 6 years of eligibility. 

#5 is a big one, especially in Basketball.  Let them enter the draft and if they go undrafted or not singed as a Free Agent with 5 days they can go back to their team - AS LONG AS they do not sign with an Agent.  Lot of players are on the fringe with Pro Basketball/G League/Euro.  This gives them the chance to find out if they can make it at year 2 or year 3 and if not go back to college and work on their game.  It is also good for the college team and recruiting.

21 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t agree college athletes should be paid period. They’re completely taking for granted the cost of a college education. If an athlete doesn’t make pro...tough luck. That’s life for everyone. Demanding to be paid is completely undermining what is supposed to be the prime objective for college; an education. Many, many of these athletes wouldn’t come close to qualifying for admission academically. So they get a free ride and now want to be paid for it? 

Only Football and Men's Basketball get total free rides.  Not sure about Women's Basketball.  The rest only get a stipend or a partial.

Plus it is so nauseating to see how the NCAA can market a college athlete's likeness and image without compensation, yet if you do anything else in the world and someone takes your likeness and image to market a product they have to compensate you.

Plus each Big Ten Team gets $85 Million in revenue off of JUST TV contracts. Little Johnny blows his knee out his 3rd year and was slated to be a 1st round draft choice and now he is done.  Oh yea Little Johnny with parents have the medical bills as well,

Division 1 Athletes put in 40 plus hours per week just for their sport and then attend classes as well.  It is no longer 1950.  This is a big business, the NCAA and the multibillion dollar enterprise it is can kick in pay.  It is time.

Either that are strip the NCAA of it's non profit status and fire that worthless piece of total crap Mark Emmert

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21 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t agree college athletes should be paid period. They’re completely taking for granted the cost of a college education. If an athlete doesn’t make pro...tough luck. That’s life for everyone. Demanding to be paid is completely undermining what is supposed to be the prime objective for college; an education. Many, many of these athletes wouldn’t come close to qualifying for admission academically. So they get a free ride and now want to be paid for it? 

Plus scholarships are only for 1 year now.  A Coach can and many do pull a scholarship.  My favorite piece of crap move is when they "Medically Retire" and athlete to free up the scholorship.

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21 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t agree college athletes should be paid period. They’re completely taking for granted the cost of a college education. If an athlete doesn’t make pro...tough luck. That’s life for everyone. Demanding to be paid is completely undermining what is supposed to be the prime objective for college; an education. Many, many of these athletes wouldn’t come close to qualifying for admission academically. So they get a free ride and now want to be paid for it? 

Besides the enormous cost of a college education these days they are getting FREE pro-level coaching that potentially can put many athletes into a position to be drafted.  Not to mention near-pro level training facilities.  All that has a monetary value.

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21 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I said ‘many’ not all. And that is simply true. Also consider the athletes who are generating this revenue. Did Rubin Oliver generate the same draw as Barry Sanders at OSU? You don’t think they will say something when Joe Blow gets the same share as the star QB or RB? 
I agree with Erik regarding the injury point. But again...tough break. That’s the risk with playing high intensity sports. And the ‘star athletes’ have no business making money while in college when in a few years they’re going to get paid more than any medical school graduate who did it on their own and acquire hundreds of thousands in debt.

Yet i know of "Star Students" that go to college for free.  Full Academic Ride plus stipends and a paid position.  Compare star students to star athletes.  Not general body students to star athletes,.

Plus - in the real world.  The Start Athlete does more to draw more students to that college they ANY medical student ever would or will.  Major Universities make so much money off of their Football and Basketball teams.  If not they would not be giving coaches multi million dollar deals and spending extravagant dollars on Athlete's Villages and Facilities.

 

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20 hours ago, David in FL said:


The educational opportunities are still there for those that want to take advantage of them.  And my point was, that there are plenty of ordinary college students who don’t do much more while they are in school, don’t get any better of a degree in terms of usefulness, and still pay the full ride.

It’s also worth realizing that the vast majority of athletes, even D1 football players, understand that they have almost 0 chance of ever playing professionally.  At some point they share responsibility for what happens after college…

The amount of money that the Big Ten and SEC make off of their football players is extreme.  It is no longer the old days of the Student Athlete.  Those Student Athletes would be kicked off the team in a matter of days.  

College Football today is more violent then the NFL ever was in the 1970's.  These young men are getting their bodies beat to crap with a list of lifelong nagging injuries that no college will ever help them with.  Yet that very college profited in so many ways beyond just TV revenue.

Don't kid yourself, every Power 5 HC recruits off of the NFL Dream becoming a reality under his program or the Pro Basketball Dream becoming a reality under their program.  

Today's Major Univiserity Athlete is not what you grew up with.  It is a multi billion dollar enterprise that is taking advantage of our kids.  It is disgusting, it is time for change.

17 hours ago, Hardspoon said:

I think all the talk of "educational opportunities" and "student athletes" makes it sound more complex than it is.

Simple fact: the NCAA sells a product...for a s**tton of money...and that product is created by kids who can't get paid at all, in any way, shape, or form, for creating it.  That's not right.  You can argue about how much money is too much...and certainly, that they can't just be paid market-rate (which would net some of them millions)...but I don't see how you can argue that NOTHING is the right amount.

Relevant:

AR-200609818.jpg

NCAA President Mark Emmert was credited with just over $2.7 million in total compensation during the 2018 calendar year, according to the

 

Mark Emmert is a worthless piece of crap.  He is a Dinosaur and needs to be fired. 

9 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Not sure I agree with this. Have you seen the percentage of college athletes ( bskt/football) that make it to the pros? Most athletes go to college knowing the chances of going pro are slim to none. I think your points are true regarding those who are top of the sport in high school and have excelled and been praised from coaches....but most?

But that is not how the Power 5 Conferences recruit.  They tell every recruit their dreams will become reality if they only join their program.

Why protect Multi Billion dollar enterprises that take full advantage of our youth.  It just doesn't make sense.

I own a business, i am a 100% Capitalist, make all you can.  Profit is not a dirty word.  But i try my hardest to pay my employees more then the going rate in the industry.  I try to make my employees better people and value what they add because without my employees our company would not exist as it is. 

Power 5 College sports would not exists without the Athletes.  Pure and simple.  Time to also take care of them correctly.  The money is there.

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39 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Besides the enormous cost of a college education these days they are getting FREE pro-level coaching that potentially can put many athletes into a position to be drafted.  Not to mention near-pro level training facilities.  All that has a monetary value.

Really? How does that help the 97% of football players who don't get drafted? 

 

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14 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Really? How does that help the 97% of football players who don't get drafted? 

They get to fall back on the Physical Education degree they've almost completed.  😁

The 3% are getting a really good deal... maybe to the tune of nearly half a million bucks (tuition, fees, room & board, meals, books, training, coaching).  So maybe the 3% don't deserve compensation???  Buy all the other guys a car.

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To give props to Ohio State. They have a Athletics Degree Completion Program. 

115618_h.jpg

Shaun Wade, Baron Browning, Michael Bennett, Kyle Young and Trevor Thompson are among the...

Football players can return and complete their degrees. 

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