Golf Carts - Rant Incoming

[Bonvivant]

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

That's not a bit silly. That's flat out insane.

• $900 - No other expense to you, but unlimited use of our carts. For your whole family.
• $1200 - All the expense of maintaining your own cart (and run it: gas or electricity), PLUS $300 on top of that, to use your own cart.

That's how I read it.

Oh, and you can't even invite your buddies to ride in your cart… because they have to pay, so they may as well get their own cart.

Stupidest thing I've heard this week @Club Rat.

 

It sounds like this is the case because we don't have a reply, but this isn't very different than public transportation in my eyes. It costs more to own a private vehicle, pay your registration (tax), and pay for gas (taxed), than to take a bus or train or whatever your city has. If they charge more for a private cart, people are less likely to do that. The club gets to control the quality of carts on their course and has a fee for gas/path repair/grass reseeding. If you don't use theirs, you pay more, which I don't see anything wrong with at all. If you bought a golf cart expecting to never have to pay a cart/trail fee again, then you messed up. I do think that the trail fee is high, but I don't think that it is insane for them to do this.

I initially read it as 900 for the membership fee and 1200 on top for using your own cart. My course has an unlimited single pass for 850 dollars, and you can buy carts in increments of 50 18 hole rides for 400 dollars. If you don't buy a cart pass, it's 14 bucks to ride 18 holes as a member. I've never seen anyone with a personal cart because it just isn't that type of area. It would have to be trailered in.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Bonvivant said:

It sounds like this is the case because we don't have a reply, but this isn't very different than public transportation in my eyes. It costs more to own a private vehicle, pay your registration (tax), and pay for gas (taxed), than to take a bus or train or whatever your city has. If they charge more for a private cart, people are less likely to do that. The club gets to control the quality of carts on their course and has a fee for gas/path repair/grass reseeding. If you don't use theirs, you pay more, which I don't see anything wrong with at all. If you bought a golf cart expecting to never have to pay a cart/trail fee again, then you messed up. I do think that the trail fee is high, but I don't think that it is insane for them to do this.

You're already paying more, you know, by owning your own cart.

Paying an extra $300 makes no sense. If the golf course is willing to accept $900 for your family to ride in their carts, charging more for you to ride in yours is stupid.

Charging the same amount, fine: people would still often choose to have their own carts because they can get the features they want, they always have it available, and so on. But charging more (as the club, not as the golfer owning his own cart paying more) is just stupid.

Comparing it to public transportation is a non-starter. Terrible analogy.

---

More specific to the topic: I hate when people pull like two wheels, or all four wheels just off the cart path by a tee or green. Like… walking an extra three feet is gonna kill ya? Leave the cart - ALL four tires - on the cart path. Stop wearing down the grass.

[Bonvivant]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Paying an extra $300 makes no sense. If the golf course is willing to accept $900 for your family to ride in their carts, charging more for you to ride in yours is stupid.

Why? There may be people that use tires on their personal carts that dig more. The carts may weigh more. That would mean more course damage. Someone may be more likely to do something silly in their own cart than a club cart because when it gets back to the clubhouse if its damaged they are getting charged as opposed to taking it home and fixing the minimal damage to the cart, where there may be big damage to the course. Unless they have a tech inspection like a drag strip, charging more for the unknown makes sense in my eyes. 300 extra bucks (for the 1200 total) for the luxury of your own cart doesn't sound like a lot to me.

[iacas]

You’re inventing things that the course will have to do to try to explain it and ignoring the actual costs to the owner.

The facts are that personal carts cost quite a bit less to the course than people renting carts.

Charging more for personal carts is stupid.

[Darkfrog]

Just curious, since I am ignorant to this. Do motorized carts cause significant wear and tear to a golf course, in the sense that maintenance is done specifically to mitigate wear and tear due to carts?

I understand that idiots in carts can cause damage to the course, but I'm more interested in the wear and tear on the grass from your standard, respectful, cart-using golfer.

[Bonvivant]

6 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

Just curious, since I am ignorant to this. Do motorized carts cause significant wear and tear to a golf course, in the sense that maintenance is done specifically to mitigate wear and tear due to carts?

I understand that idiots in carts can cause damage to the course, but I'm more interested in the wear and tear on the grass from your standard, respectful, cart-using golfer.

At my course, there are many spots that are bare or close to bare because of cart traffic. Lots of these are around the green so shouldn't exist at all, but do. Carts are heavy and cause damage in all course conditions (wet or dry). I don't know if the damage is significant, and should probably be taken on a case by case basis. Not sure on the maintenance front, other than heavy traffic areas may require more seed, which also means more time focused there.

[Darkfrog]

17 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

At my course, there are many spots that are bare or close to bare because of cart traffic.

I've never seen this at any courses I play. Carts generally stay on the paths, except to divert off the path to get their ball (when it's not cart path only). The only time there is any evidence of cart use is when the ground is wet, and the tracks in the dew are obvious. Grass is pretty resilient (my "lawn" dies every summer, and returns with a vengeance the following spring), so I've never thought of bare spots as a major maintenance issue. That said, behaviors of cart golfers, and agronomy probably differ depending on the location. I'm in a pretty temperate area, and aside from routine periods of drought, there aren't extreme environmental conditions to deal with.

17 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Lots of these are around the green so shouldn't exist at all, but do.

All my local courses have clear markings around 20-30 yards from the green directing carts back to the cart path. Generally I see golfers in carts respect the signage, although there is the occasional idiot who decides to ignore them and drive up to the fringe (but the gist of my question is not for people like this).

[StuM]

43 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

Just curious, since I am ignorant to this. Do motorized carts cause significant wear and tear to a golf course, in the sense that maintenance is done specifically to mitigate wear and tear due to carts?

I understand that idiots in carts can cause damage to the course, but I'm more interested in the wear and tear on the grass from your standard, respectful, cart-using golfer.

"Significant Wear & Tear" is subjective but I have seen areas of worn grass in areas where many carts turn off a path onto a fairway, often just past an area that has been roped off.

[Double Mocha Man]

47 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

Just curious, since I am ignorant to this. Do motorized carts cause significant wear and tear to a golf course, in the sense that maintenance is done specifically to mitigate wear and tear due to carts?

I understand that idiots in carts can cause damage to the course, but I'm more interested in the wear and tear on the grass from your standard, respectful, cart-using golfer.

Every course I've played lately, when using a cart, has "common" areas where cart users veer off the paved cart path... or back on.  These areas are usually hard-packed dirt, devoid of grass, from hundreds of carts using the same path.  I try, best as I can, to avoid these dusty, desert-like areas and pull off or pull back on the cart path several yards later where there is grass.

[mcanadiens]

41 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

At my course, there are many spots that are bare or close to bare because of cart traffic. Lots of these are around the green so shouldn't exist at all, but do. Carts are heavy and cause damage in all course conditions (wet or dry). I don't know if the damage is significant, and should probably be taken on a case by case basis. Not sure on the maintenance front, other than heavy traffic areas may require more seed, which also means more time focused there.

I've played many times at the course @Bonvivant is talking about here. 

"Many bare spots" may be a bit of an overstatement, but I don't think the carts have much to do with the damage that is there. In Community GC's case it is mostly just the idiot factor. Munis, in particular, play host to all sorts of people and some of them are very, very drunk.

The local football alumni came to play my new home course and ripped it apart. Two weeks later, and we are still finding those tiny bottles of liquor in the bushes. However, I hear the pro was pretty happy with the pay day, so I guess it was worth it. 

 

[Bonvivant]

1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

Many bare spots" may be a bit of an overstatement, but I don't think the carts have much to do with the damage that is there. In Community GC's case it is mostly just the idiot factor. Munis, in particular, play host to all sorts of people and some of them are very, very drunk.

I completely disagree. Most of the spots i am talking about are near tees and greens, many in the shade and used frequently by duck game players, none of which are drunk, and all of which know better. 

[Mr22putt]

10 hours ago, phillyk said:

One kid T-boned a cart right in front of the pro shop while the dad was on the passenger side.  We all say, yeah that'll never happen if I let my kid drive, but that dad was saying the same thing prior to the accident.  A wide open fairway, no trees, whatever, but go near anything at all, and the adult should be driving.

Was there damage?...if yes....what did the course do?

9 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

A few years ago, in a scramble tournament (maybe I don't need to say anymore) a couple driving up the cartpath to the clubhouse after the 18th hole drove through the wooden fence and went over the cliff.   A forested cliffside saved them.  But now that small mountainside has been cleared of trees to allow sunshine to reach the green below.  They both survived (alcohol helps here) and they ended up owning a busted up power cart.  If they do it again they're tumbling down a cliffside of 100-150 feet.  Not survivable this time.

Hmmm...let me guess...Shuksan?

5 hours ago, FlyingAce said:

My club charges me $120/mth to use my own golf cart and the fee applies during winter when there is snow, or even during covid shutdown earlier this year when the club was closed. They also charge a cart fee ($18) to anyone who rides with me in MY private cart that I have already paid to use on the course!

Everyone drives their cart up to the fringe of the greens, even the headpro and staff so you cannot fault members for doing the same. 

This course is in a residential community (but a separate business entity) and there are no gates to prevent anyone from driving on the course. What annoys the crap out of me are parents who allow their underage kids to drive carts (rule is 16 with a license plus insurance) but I have seen kids so young that they had to stand up inorder to hit the pedal and be able to see above the steering wheel....young kids driving their friends around, driving on the fairway against golf traffic when people are playing, or groups of 5 teenagers with 1 set of clubs in a 2 seater cart (kids hanging on like monkeys) sneaking on to play...The club knows about all these issues but they are not doing anything about it...

You mean...PAST course you belonged to.

What a sh*tshow it was/is there....sound like more CLOWNS there vs your local Walmart.

[dagolfer18]

12 hours ago, darthweasel said:

First off...keep the cart in the designated areas. So tired of seeing people parking on the fringe of the green. Even the lowest goat track typically has a sign "keep carts 30' from greens" (or it might be 30 yards, I don't know...I don't get that close so it is a distinction without a difference to me. When I get close to the green I park at the next tee box and head back to my ball with the appropriate clubs). Don't drive through that "environmentally sensitive area" to get to your errant shot.

Second, parking the cart in front of the green when they went over the back...or off to the left when the next hole is off to the right...seriously,

Fifth, those signs on par 3s that say "keep carts on path from tee to green on this hole"? They don't have exceptions because you had a crap swing and shoved it 50 yards into the fairway off to the right. Part of taking your medicine is following the established rules and walking over there, not driving over because you have a cart. Oh, on that 180 yard par 3 you chunked it 80 yards? Sign is still there, walk to your ball, don't drive the cart there.

Yes, yes, and YES! I have seen way too much of these three, especially the first and last points. Too often I will see someone off the cart path on a par-3, or someone parked right on the fringe of the green where I possibly will be playing my next shot. It drives me nuts.

[phillyk]

41 minutes ago, Mr22putt said:

Was there damage?...if yes....what did the course do?

Long story short, the dad and son snuck away after the incident but we got their info and threatened to file a police report. He called right back and gave us what we needed. Cart needed a new side panel. Not sure of what else it needed. 

[Warren Zevon]

  After reading this thread I won't bitch about the $450 I pay for trail fees at my course.

 

[Zippo]

As for the extra charge for running your own cart, I think this falls under the heading of "the business has a right to charge whatever they want" that we read in another thread. If one doesn't like it they can take their cart, and business to another course. Personally, I would probably be aware of the extra charges before I made the decision to buy a cart.

As for inconsiderate carters, unfortunately there are rectal orifices everywhere. I would report them to the course marshal, if I were to golf in a place that had such a thing and viewed someone violating the course cart rules with their cart. Many of the courses in this area - with some exceptions, allow the carts to run down the fairway except when the course is very wet. None of them that I know of allow a cart near the green.

Also, I sometimes park with 2 wheels off the path to allow traffic to go by my cart when I'm on the green. Whenever possible, I'll park it on the side of the course away from the green but it beats having to leave the green and go back to the cart to let the beverage cart person - or someone else - go by.

[mcanadiens]

On 8/21/2020 at 6:50 PM, Bonvivant said:

I completely disagree. Most of the spots i am talking about are near tees and greens, many in the shade and used frequently by duck game players, none of which are drunk, and all of which know better. 

Ok.

Every golf course has high traffic areas for golf carts. Sure those carts do some damage to the grass there. Further I suppose that if you measured it out many of these spots would be less than 30 feet from the green.

I guess the point i was making is that Community isn't any worse with that than most muni courses. Maybe the high-end clubs do a better job keeping carts away from greens. Maybe "many bare spots" is an exaggeration.

Still, most significant course damage isn't cause by carts. It is caused by people. The goofs who played my course on Saturday fixed zero ball marks.

 

[Bonvivant]

6 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

I guess the point i was making is that Community isn't any worse with that than most muni courses. Maybe the high-end clubs do a better job keeping carts away from greens. Maybe "many bare spots" is an exaggeration.

I think that Madden was not nearly as bad, but would put Kittyhawk on the same level. I will take pictures next time I am out, because I don't think this is an exaggeration at all. To clarify, I am talking about spots that have no grass or very thin, dead grass, where the ball rarely stops, and worse, is tough to hit from if it does.

 

7 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Still, most significant course damage isn't cause by carts. It is caused by people. The goofs who played my course on Saturday fixed zero ball marks.

I hate this almost as much as carts close to greens/tees, but try to do my part by fixing 4-7 marks on every green. I've been asked by people if I work at the course before because of this, and I just say "no, I just play here a lot". I like to hope that they see this reply and do a better job themselves.