2020 U.S. Open at Winged Foot

[iacas]

16 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

I still do. Him withdrawing from the US Open and admitting he still isn't well is a step in the right direction, but I am not a fan of the way he calls out players and has "hidden" (didn't do a very good job of it) injury in the past. The most recent announcement was a pleasant surprise for me.

He doesn't owe you any honesty about his personal health. Your position here is ridiculous. You're entitled to it, it's just ridiculous.

Players are constantly battling little things. They're all being "dishonest" about stuff in your book, apparently.

37 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

I also don't see injuries as "misfortune".

More ridiculousness.

[ChrisP]

Sounds like the set up next week is very similar to 06, just longer. Fairways narrow, deep rough. Heard Maltbie and Feherty say that guys playing practice rounds already complaining and expecting over par to win. Sounds like a US Open.  

Glad they’re gonna let Winged Foot play like Winged Foot. It’s the nations toughest course and should play like it.

Edited September 11, 2020 by ChrisP

[Bonvivant]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

More ridiculousness.

So you think that someone that overdoes it and is known to play on injury (apparently they all do this which I didn't know) is just having some bad luck when he does so? Was it misfortune that Tiger went through all of his injury and surgery? I don't think so. I think it is a product of swinging hard over many years and age. Luck really doesn't have anything to do with it at all. I am all ears on how its "more ridiculousness" that injury isn't misfortune if you care to actually explain why an injury IS a misfortune.

[Double Mocha Man]

I am witness to golf injuries being self-inflicted.  Last year, playing or practicing 6-7 days a week I tore two tendons in my right elbow from overuse. This was with all the proper stretching, proper workouts.  11 months of physical therapy, prolotherapy, and chiropractic followed.  Still not back to normal.  I don't feel it was misfortune.  If I had stayed at home playing the stock market it wouldn't have happened.  Though I might have suffered carpal tunnel syndrome.

[Bonvivant]

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I am witness to golf injuries being self-inflicted.  Last year, playing or practicing 6-7 days a week I tore two tendons in my right elbow from overuse. This was with all the proper stretching, proper workouts.  11 months of physical therapy, prolotherapy, and chiropractic followed.  Still not back to normal.  I don't feel it was misfortune.  If I had stayed at home playing the stock market it wouldn't have happened.  Though I might have suffered carpal tunnel syndrome.

I am sorry to hear about this. I pulled a move last year at the end of August where I played a 54 hole weekend, and my 36 hole cumulative score on Sunday was probably around 250, so plenty of full swings to be had. Ended up bruising/breaking a rib, and was laid up for a while, almost impossible to sleep....no golf for 6 weeks. Definitely wasn't luck that I was benched, but the funny thing was, it was still kind of hurting and I decided to go for a 20-25 ball range session with less than full swings. My rib felt better that night and I was back to almost full swing within a week of that.

[Vinsk]

25 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

I am all ears on how its "more ridiculousness" that injury isn't misfortune if you care to actually explain why an injury IS a misfortune.

Wait...what?

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

So you think that someone that overdoes it and is known to play on injury (apparently they all do this which I didn't know) is just having some bad luck when he does so?

You have a screwy definition of "misfortune." Most PGA Tour players work out. Most are not so injured that they have to miss the U.S. Open (and probably more events than that).

A pitcher who is hit in the head by a batted ball coming back at him is knowingly putting himself 50 to 55' from some guys who are strong and trying to hit the ball, but it's still misfortune to be hit by a come-backer. It's still misfortune when an NFL running back tears an ACL, and when an NHL forward gets a high ankle sprain.

24 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Was it misfortune that Tiger went through all of his injury and surgery?

Yes.

Look, dude, you get to have your opinion… just as I get to have my opinion about your opinion.

[Double Mocha Man]

If you put yourself in the position of being a professional athlete and you do all the appropriate workouts, stretches, enough sleep, following nutritional standards and not pushing yourself at times and you get an injury then I'd say it's misfortune.

[Darkfrog]

Unless you're doing Jackass-esque stunts, or willfully ignoring medical advice regarding a health condition to be tough and play through it, any injury is misfortune. I assume Brooks Koepka, or any other professional athlete has top notch medical support/advice, and isn't actively trying to sabotage their career for the sake of being tough. I don't like Brooks either, but I doubt this is anything more than misfortune.

[Bonvivant]

9 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If you put yourself in the position of being a professional athlete and you do all the appropriate workouts, stretches, enough sleep, following nutritional standards and not pushing yourself at times and you get an injury then I'd say it's misfortune.

You dont think he was pushing himself 2 months ago when he was already clearly hurt? 

If this was a freak injury the week (or 3 weeks) before the open then I might concede that it's misfortune,  but that isn't what happened here. 

12 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

Unless you're doing Jackass-esque stunts, or willfully ignoring medical advice regarding a health condition to be tough and play through it, any injury is misfortune. I assume Brooks Koepka, or any other professional athlete has top notch medical support/advice, and isn't actively trying to sabotage their career for the sake of being tough. I don't like Brooks either, but I doubt this is anything more than misfortune.

Disagree. Professional athletes are pushing the limits of the human body every time they lace em up. Golf probably has a smaller injury rate than other sports, but it is still physically demanding, and no matter how well you prepare, you can overdo it in the blink of an eye. Their trainers aren't out on the course telling them "don't swing that hard" or "lay up here" under normal circumstances. He has had these same injuries in the past, and pushed passed his limit again. No misfortune in that (to me).

[iacas]

Just now, Bonvivant said:

You dont think he was pushing himself 2 months ago when he was already clearly hurt? 

So now we've reached the part where you try to defend your ridiculous position by speculating. Cool!

For all you know, his doctors told him "look, there might be some pain, but you're not going to further injure it." It may not have even been the same injury.

In truth, I think it's a different thing altogether. From various articles, he said the trainer was stretching out his hip at the PGA, and is quoted in one as saying "It was my hip. Nothing to do with my knee," he explained of the trainer working kinks out of him on the course. "It's fine. I woke up this morning, it was tight, and worked out and it got even tighter and then we loosened it up. It was a little tight when I was hitting balls on the range but it's nothing to be worried about."

Just now, Bonvivant said:

If this was a freak injury the week (or 3 weeks) before the open then I might concede that it's misfortune,  but that isn't what happened here.

You don't know "what happened here."

Just stop. He's not playing, and you're happy about it because you think it's cosmic payback because he owes you "honesty" about his private health information.

Let's get back to talking about the U.S. Open.

Where Jordan Spieth will be a complete shit-show.

[jmanbooyaa]

@iacas sadly I agree with your last statement, Speith is lost. Too bad to see someone fall that far off. 

[Antneye]

1 hour ago, jmanbooyaa said:

@iacas sadly I agree with your last statement, Speith is lost. Too bad to see someone fall that far off. 

I never warmed to Spieth. I just find him to be arrogant and hard to root for. I'm a sucker for lost causes so, while I'm still team Phil, Fowler has become my go-to to route for. 

[ChrisP]

15 hours ago, jmanbooyaa said:

@iacas sadly I agree with your last statement, Speith is lost. Too bad to see someone fall that far off. 

Sad to see. I really think it’s all mental with him. His head always seemed to get in the way since the ‘15 Masters. Even the Open he won, his head was playing games with him that last round. He was able to hit that shot on 14 though that changed his confidence and won him the claret jug. I hope he can fix it because he is just one major from the career GS and it would be a waste to see it all fall apart now.

[turtleback]

15 hours ago, jmanbooyaa said:

@iacas sadly I agree with your last statement, Speith is lost. Too bad to see someone fall that far off. 

It just shows how difficult it is to stay on top for an extended period, and why we shouldn't be so quick to label anyone as the next Tiger or Jack.

 

17 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

You dont think he was pushing himself 2 months ago when he was already clearly hurt? 

If this was a freak injury the week (or 3 weeks) before the open then I might concede that it's misfortune,  but that isn't what happened here. 

Disagree. Professional athletes are pushing the limits of the human body every time they lace em up. Golf probably has a smaller injury rate than other sports, but it is still physically demanding, and no matter how well you prepare, you can overdo it in the blink of an eye. Their trainers aren't out on the course telling them "don't swing that hard" or "lay up here" under normal circumstances. He has had these same injuries in the past, and pushed passed his limit again. No misfortune in that (to me).

We get that you don't like him.  This other stuff you are using to justify yourself is just silly.

[ChrisP]

I think the days of being the next Tiger and Jack are over. I think there may be guys that get close to their talent, but it won’t just be one...it’ll be several at once. I think we’re seeing a change in golf now with the huge youth movement coming in. I think Morikawa and Wolff will be the face of the sport by the end of next year and then three years from now it’ll be a couple more new 22-year olds. 

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

I really think it’s all mental with him.

It isn't.

And this is why the mental game is given so much weight. He's hitting it sideways. It's a technical issue. There's certainly a mental aspect to the technical issues, and trusting what you're doing, and having the grind to work on it, and fighting through some bad results while mid-change, but the root and bulk of the issue is not mental.

He was a bit nutty when he was winning all the time, too.

[Darkfrog]

44 minutes ago, iacas said:

He's hitting it sideways.

I watched Spieth play a par-5 yesterday on PGA Tour Live at the Safeway Open, think it was hole #16 or #18. He might as well have been me for the first two shots, driving the ball 40 yards right of the fairway and then hitting a poor recovery shot off some branches into the penalty area.

I can’t see him making the cut at Winged Foot.