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2020 U.S. Open at Winged Foot

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Honest question...if Tiger shoots the 67 yesterday and not DeChambeau, how many are calling it the greatest final round in a US Open? I guarantee you many here and many experts would be clamoring saying it was. Without question. And anyone who disagrees is lying to themselves.

Edited by ChrisP

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5 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

Honest question...if Tiger shoots the 67 yesterday and not DeChambeau, how many are calling it the greatest final round in a US Open? I guarantee you many here and many experts would be clamoring saying it was. Without question. And anyone who disagrees is lying to themselves.

Just continuing down this road, eh? Really having a butthurt kind of morning?

No, it wouldn't be the greatest round, because it wasn't, and those people (me included) are not "lying to themselves."

P.S. If Tiger had won his 16th major at age… 44 doing what Bryson did, it would have been more impressive in a lot of ways than Bryson given the injuries, the age, the surgeries, his place in the game at large… but statistically, it wouldn't have been the greatest because it wasn't statistically the greatest.

P.P.S. It's not an "honest question" if you've pre-determined the output and said basically "anyone who disagrees is lying to themselves."

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Just now, iacas said:

Just continuing down this road, eh? Really having a butthurt kind of morning?

No, it wouldn't be the greatest round, because it wasn't, and those people (me included) are not "lying to themselves."

If it was Tiger, you know you’d be on here saying it was one of the greatest. You only disagree bc you don’t like BDC. But everyone here knows for a fact if it was Tiger, you’d have said it was. And don’t lie. You know that’s true. And if you say otherwise, it’s bullshit.

I’m not going to say it was the greatest but I will say it’s up there. Definitely top-10.

 

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1 minute ago, ChrisP said:

If it was Tiger, you know you’d be on here saying it was one of the greatest.

Wrong.

And that's still given Tiger winning at -6 with a final-round 67 would have been:

  • His 16th major, not his first. Or 19th, if you count Ams, putting him within one of Jack with two Masters being played back to back (or within two if you count it as 16).
  • At age 44.
  • After all of the surgeries, months and years off from the game, etc.
  • By the GOAT.

And even then, while slightly more impressive than Bryson doing it at age 27 while healthy for his first and thus far only win, in a tournament where it became a two-horse race pretty quickly on Sunday, still wouldn't elevate it that high in my judgment.

1 minute ago, ChrisP said:

You only disagree bc you don’t like BDC.

I don't know where you got that in your head. I f***ing love BDC. I've wanted golf to have a heel for a long time. You're completely f***ing wrong here, and you seem to have missed the post above where I first told you this.

You're constructing a completely false narrative here, all as a way of justifying why you're "right" in all of this. But your foundation is built on 💩.

6 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

But everyone here knows for a fact if it was Tiger, you’d have said it was. And don’t lie. You know that’s true. And if you say otherwise, it’s bullshit.

You don't know me very well man.

I don't know what to tell ya. I look at the numbers. The data. What Tiger did when he was at his peaks (for a sustained period of time) is unparalleled. What Bryson did on Sunday alone has 10 or 20 parallels in golf. Again, it has five or six just in the U.S. Open since 1960. Split hairs with how you rank them, it's clear Bryson's Sunday isn't head and shoulders above anything. And it doesn't matter whose name you put beside it, the stats would be the same. The story is a different thing altogether.

If you want to talk about Tiger, Woods winning the U.S. Open in 2000 by 15 at -12 with the next closest at +3 was way more impressive than what Bryson did this week. It wasn't the more impressive final round, but Tiger already led by 10 going in, so all he managed to do was go bogey-free for 18 holes and increase his lead by five.

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All the revolutionary "long driving" talk might be a bit over-blown.  From one of the articles talking about Bryson's way..

 

"McIlroy actually outdrove DeChambeau this week, averaging 328.1 yards against DeChambeau's total of 325.6. They ranked sixth and seventh, respectively, in the field for the week."

 

You don't hear much from the announcers about Bryson being 7th in driving this week.  He got some good breaks, made some key putts, but I think P Zinger got pretty carried away.

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

It was nearly 3 strokes better.

So Johnny's 3 strokes better against a lesser field was better than BDC against a better field on a better course in tougher conditions?  Laughable.  You're cherry picking when you like data and not.

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40 minutes ago, ChrisP said:

If it was Tiger, you know you’d be on here saying it was one of the greatest. You only disagree bc you don’t like BDC. But everyone here knows for a fact if it was Tiger, you’d have said it was. And don’t lie. You know that’s true. And if you say otherwise, it’s bullshit.

Bro wtf? Like Erik said...you don’t know him very well from this post. It’s numbers and facts ...you know that. Tiger winning this major would obviously be a bigger story but wouldn’t make it a greatest round ever ...not even top five. I don’t think you believe any of this stuff you’ve posted.

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7 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

So Johnny's 3 strokes better against a lesser field was better than BDC against a better field on a better course in tougher conditions?  Laughable.  You're cherry picking when you like data and not.

Laughable? You're drastically under-estimating how large three shots is.

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2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Laughable? You're drastically under-estimating how large three shots is.

Ok, so how much better are today's players/fields?  A shot or half a shot a day?  That makes it a lot closer for BDC and is no longer 3 shots.  You're failing to account for the fact that strokes gained is relative to competition.  You have to account for the increased level of play since 73.  You use this argument all the time in the Jack v. Tiger thread.  Use that same reasoning here.  Be fair.

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4 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Ok, so how much better are today's players/fields?  A shot or half a shot a day?  That makes it a lot closer for BDC and is no longer 3 shots.

Yeah, if it's a shot a day (which is big), Bryson is still two behind Johnny Miller (1.87).

4 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

You're failing to account for the fact that strokes gained is relative to competition.

No, I'm not "failing to account" for that.

4 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

You have to account for the increased level of play since 73.

I am. Bryson has to make up three (2.87) f***ing shots.

You're underestimating how huge that is.

And again, that's just in the U.S. Open, and only since 1960.

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13 minutes ago, iacas said:

Yeah, if it's a shot a day (which is big), Bryson is still two behind Johnny Miller (1.87).

No, I'm not "failing to account" for that.

I am. Bryson has to make up three (2.87) f***ing shots.

You're underestimating how huge that is.

And again, that's just in the U.S. Open, and only since 1960.

Fair enough.  I don't know how much better today's players are and how much harder the course & conditions were for BDC.  However, I don't think the post you began with tells the whole story.

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I'm not sure if I agree there would be much of a difference who wins with or without spectators. Haven't both BAD and Wolff won regular events before the lockdown?

With all due respect to how hard announcing is, Dan Hicks was just too repetitive and talky, even with the bits of WF he knew because he's a member. I would have liked to have heard the names of all the holes, like for ANGC.

Also the young uns' talking on their phone walking to the first tee, like I'm sure the olds do that too. Working the youth angle a bit too hard.

If Wolff won, you would have seen people imitating his swing on the range, BAD, I dunno, people going into traction trying to swing as hard as they can?

I missed this 6 putt by Danny Lee.

And this little gem from Sabbatini.

 

 

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My 2 cents on Bryson's strokes gained ranking.

1. Give Bryson an additional stroke for the quality of field. The depth of today's tour is so much better than 40-50 years ago. 

2. Give Bryson a quarter stroke for playing in the last pairing. None of the other 3 rounds above him came from the final group. Heck, Miller and Palmer both finished almost an hour before the final pairings. Nicklaus was in the second to last group. Having all eyes on you from shot 1 is just harder than playing under the radar for the first several holes. 

3. Take away half a stroke for not playing in front of fans. Psychologically, I think this was a big deal for the players. And for someone as touchy as Bryson, I think being able to execute his gameplan without getting rattled or (potentially) heckled by fans was a big help. 

Add it up and the intangibles vault him ahead of Nicklaus but keep him firmly behind Palmer and Miller.

Very scientific analysis I know.....

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My takeaway from yesterday's final pairing of Wolff and DeChambeau, for the amateur in all of us, is that it's okay to have an exaggerated forward press, lift the heel of your left foot well off the ground, loop your swing, stick your arms straight out and swing hard.

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I'll be honest and say if Tiger had shot a 67 yesterday and won, I would be proclaiming at the greatest round of EVAR.

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1 hour ago, colin007 said:

I'll be honest and say if Tiger had shot a 67 yesterday and won, I would be proclaiming at the greatest round of EVAR.

I would too and so would a lot of people on here.  Strokes gained and data calculations & adjustments are made all the time for Tiger in the Jack v. Tiger debate, but not here.  If I had to venture a guess, it's probably because of personal bias against BDC.  

Edited by ncates00

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My brief takeaway. 

 

Bryson well done, not my fave player but kudos you're the champ.

Didn't find anything wrong with Rorys comments. He's not one to play to the press, speaks as he sees it.

Somebody shut Azinger up, he speaks drivel.

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32 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

If I had to venture a guess, it's probably because of personal bias against BDC.  

Riiiight.

33 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Strokes gained and data calculations & adjustments are made all the time for Tiger in the Jack v. Tiger debate

They are? You have Jack's Strokes Gained data?

You and @ChrisP have reached the part where you can't understand why people aren't just agreeing with you, so you just make up a "clear" "bias" or something.

I'm all for Bryson. Y'all couldn't be more off base.

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