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Effington

Gimmes

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7 minutes ago, Effington said:

Seems like a lot.  I would have thought it'd be a quarter of that.

In an 18 hole round a guy or gal probably averages 6 to 8 gimme-length putts.  Half of those you can just rake in.  The other half, especially when they're an 18 incher, slick green, left to right... they're gonna read those putts, perhaps from both sides of the hole.  And then there are the practice swings.  And if they make it there's the victory dance!  All time consuming.

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35 minutes ago, Effington said:

Seems like a lot.  I would have thought it'd be a quarter of that.

Think about it this way - if you are in a tournament and have to putt everything out, you probably have 50 putts in a foursome between 1-3 feet. If each person takes 20 seconds to look at his putt, practice stroke, putt, pick up your ball, that's 17 minutes. That doesn't include the time to mark a two footer that you would normally pick up but you're not away and you'd rather wait to putt out. May be more like 30 minutes. Putting out really slows things down.

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11 hours ago, Sean_D said:

When I play with people whom I have never played with before, I always tell them on the 1st tee, "I plan on posting this score for my index and I need to finish each hole. I don't give putts and I don't take them." I stared doing this because people would "ship my ball back", and wait for me to give them a putt. I really don't care what they do, they can give themselves a 50-footer if they want. If we're competing, we're playing by the rules. If were not competing, I'm playing by the rules and they can do whatever they want.   

There's only one time the 50-foot gimme is acceptable, and we all know why he gave her the putt, and I think many of us agree with the reasoning. 

8 hours ago, iacas said:

You can pick up in medal play (rounds for a handicap). You only have to write down your most likely score.

This is correct, and my comment from yesterday was not.  I used medal play to refer to tournament medal play, where the holes do have to be finished.  When posting for a handicap, most likely score is correct.  

In fact, that difference is part of why I joined a club in the first place:  to have a chance to play rounds where my 5' putts weren't hit back to me, and then I was made to feel a bit like a jerk for insisting on playing them out.  Seemed to happen a lot, so I joined a club that played the ball out.  Now that I look back, I wonder how common it was. 

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1 hour ago, gbogey said:

Think about it this way - if you are in a tournament and have to putt everything out, you probably have 50 putts in a foursome between 1-3 feet. If each person takes 20 seconds to look at his putt, practice stroke, putt, pick up your ball, that's 17 minutes. That doesn't include the time to mark a two footer that you would normally pick up but you're not away and you'd rather wait to putt out. May be more like 30 minutes. Putting out really slows things down.

Putting out only slows things down if everyone in the group isn't doing anything except watching AND the players are taking excessive time to read the putts. I've played rounds in under 3 hours with a walking foursome where everything was holed. I strongly doubt that 30 minutes of that was putts inside 3 feet. Maybe 10 minutes would be my guess. Well worth it for getting a valid score instead of the pseudo score you get with a gimme system. The problem I see is that too many people emulate the pros and take far too long for all shots, including the 3ft and under range.

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10 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

Putting out only slows things down if everyone in the group isn't doing anything except watching AND the players are taking excessive time to read the putts. I've played rounds in under 3 hours with a walking foursome where everything was holed. I strongly doubt that 30 minutes of that was putts inside 3 feet. Maybe 10 minutes would be my guess. Well worth it for getting a valid score instead of the pseudo score you get with a gimme system. The problem I see is that too many people emulate the pros and take far too long for all shots, including the 3ft and under range.

@gbogey's reference was to tournament play, not a casual round early in the morning with 3 friends and nothing on the line. When something is on the line (either a tournament finish or money), most players mark more often, take longer to read short putts, ask other players to move their mark, etc... That adds up quickly.

I agree with you that when we are playing a $1/$1/$1 Nassau there is not a lot of excessive time wasted on putts; we miss them quickly and holing everything is not a time drain.

 

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1 hour ago, bkuehn1952 said:

@gbogey's reference was to tournament play, not a casual round early in the morning with 3 friends and nothing on the line. When something is on the line (either a tournament finish or money), most players mark more often, take longer to read short putts, ask other players to move their mark, etc... That adds up quickly.

Exactly. My observation from this season is that if you rush / get careless on the less than 2' putts, you will miss 1-2 per round. What shouldn't be lost on this point is that the most common way to get careless is to miss by 2' and then decide to finish but rush things because you are putting out of order. This leads you to mark from 2' much more often, which adds 15 seconds to that person's play of the hole. I mainly played with players whose handicaps ranged from 3-13, so better than average golfers.  

For yucks this morning I pressed start on my stopwatch:

  1. Walked 5 steps across the room
  2. Put a ball on the floor to simulate putting down my ball behind a mark
  3. Moved back a step into a squat to simulate looking at the line for a count of three
  4. Addressed the ball
  5. Quick practice stroke
  6. Simulate a putt
  7. Took a step forward to simulate picking up the ball from the hole
  8. Then stepped away 5 steps (to get out of the next player) and pressed stop.

Took 29 seconds and it felt rushed. Putting out, especially in tournament type play, is slow. I don't like it when my other group "gives" putts from four feet. Still looking for an answer.

 

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There is a difference between what is right and what is acceptable, obviously.  but, play golf however you want to play golf.   it's your game.  do with it what you wish.   

I'm a pretty social golfer and typically just go along with what the group does.   That said, I never take a putt that I'm not given.  If i don't hear the words "thats good", I'm putting.   but normally, anything inside the leather is given (unless its matchplay and the hole is on the line or something.)     And, with that, I don't really feel bad about it.    I played 5 rounds of tournament play this summer and didn't miss a single putt inside 3 ft.   so, when someone gives me a 2 footer, i don't feel like I'm stealing a stroke or anything, 

 

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Even in a friendly I put mine in the hole unless I'm maxed out, which I usually don't get to. I mean, that is the point after all. I tell the guys I'm with do what you want. 

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43 minutes ago, lastings said:

I played 5 rounds of tournament play this summer and didn't miss a single putt inside 3 ft.   so, when someone gives me a 2 footer, i don't feel like I'm stealing a stroke or anything, 

 

My observation / experience is that providing a golfer gives a putt careful attention, 2' is to amateurs what 3' is to pros - 99% make. At 3', the make % goes down a little so these should be putted out. Unfortunately this has applied to me as well.

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14 minutes ago, gbogey said:

My observation / experience is that providing a golfer gives a putt careful attention, 2' is to amateurs what 3' is to pros - 99% make. At 3', the make % goes down a little so these should be putted out. Unfortunately this has applied to me as well.

The green matters as well. On my home course, some are flat, easy to knock in backwards. But some greens have 3% slope or more.  On those, I can easily miss a 1 foot putt if I’m not careful—certainly not a gimme for me.

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On 9/28/2020 at 3:40 PM, Effington said:

Hey guys, I am sure this topic has been discussed at great length, but didn't seem to find a thread specific to my question.

My regular playing partner & I are aligned well that we don't give each other anything.  The ball must go in the hole, unless it's within a couple inches.  Thus, I practice a good amount of short putts.  We don't play for money but there are substantial bragging rights and a lot of trash talk and our families see each other often.

Had a couple other people join us the other day and they were surprised that we had these rules.  They had played for 20+ years and always gave putts within a few feet and were surprised that we played so strict, especially with no money on the line.  They used the "pace of play" line, but I'm not sure playing your 2 feet putts each round contributes to slow play.

Is playing these strict rules uncommon?

As noted, it has led me to practice short putts much more than I otherwise would be.  If I was given all my 2-3 footers, I would spend my practice time elsewhere.

Seems to be contradicting yourself there.

When I play with my buddies.  It's either absolutely no gimmies or anything within the leather.

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35 minutes ago, gbogey said:

My observation / experience is that providing a golfer gives a putt careful attention, 2' is to amateurs what 3' is to pros - 99% make. At 3', the make % goes down a little so these should be putted out. 

Paul Simon says there're 50 ways to leave your lover.  There are 51 ways to miss a 3 foot putt.

20 minutes ago, Yukari said:

When I play with my buddies.  It's either absolutely no gimmies or anything within the leather.

Are there still leather putting grips?  Wouldn't it be "Inside the rubber"?

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Casual game... 2' gimmes. Putt all birdies or better no matter the length. That's our rule.

Match play: I may give 4' for A/S. 

Medal: putt it out. Everything.

Three foot putts: Percentage is 90% on those for most people. It drops to 80% in pressure situations. This is why you practice them. Two-footers? You really have to try to miss them. Standing over the ball too long is one of the ways to do it.

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1 hour ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Are there still leather putting grips?  Wouldn't it be "Inside the rubber"?

Inside the multi-compound elastomer.

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4 hours ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

Even in a friendly I put mine in the hole unless I'm maxed out, which I usually don't get to. I mean, that is the point after all.

I mean, who could say?

The point for some people is to be outside, drink beer, get away from their wives, and have some fun with their buddies.

Putting everything out for a 100% legit score might be twelfth on their list of "points."

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4 minutes ago, iacas said:

I mean, who could say?

The point for some people is to be outside, drink beer, get away from their wives, and have some fun with their buddies.

Putting everything out for a 100% legit score might be twelfth on their list of "points."

Never offered my opinion on what anybody else should do, just what I do.

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1 hour ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

Never offered my opinion on what anybody else should do, just what I do.

Okay.

You didn't say it was the point for you, so I'm sure you could see how what you wrote could be read as saying it's "the point" for everyone.


Generally speaking, to everyone… if you don't want gimmes to be given to you, just say "I like to putt out." I putt out in tournaments, and often take away three footers or so when I'm playing casually. It saves time and I make them 99% of the time anyway, so… yeah.

Give yourself gimmes, don't give yourself gimmes. Whatever floats your boat. The point of golf is for most everyone here to have fun. You're playing it recreationally. Whatever lets you have fun, play at a good pace, etc. - good for you!

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