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Scratch golfers

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...Everyone has to remember that it depends on the Course....A guy that plays a course like Oakmont is going to have a worse handicap than someone who plays a local VFW course. Granted i dont hava a handicap at Oakmont-but i play a damned hard course where they had the Western pennsylvania Open and im game there. Just realize that the course makes a huge difference--but it involves a lot of equations and stuff for the handicap thing to work.

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This is true and I find that the euqations used to calculate the slope and rating of a course in comparison to another course to be plenty confusing. The course I belong to now is MUCH MUCH harder than the course I played last year so I expect my handicap to go up but at the same time, I expect to get better as a golfer (well I hope).

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...Everyone has to remember that it depends on the Course....A guy that plays a course like Oakmont is going to have a worse handicap than someone who plays a local VFW course.

If the slope and course ratings are near accurate, the differences should be minimal.

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Yeah, I work with a guy who proclaimed that "everyone is his family are scratch golfers as they all have around 10 handicaps". Let's just say I don't think he knew the definition of scratch golfer.

Well, in a few years, you can take your kids to the course and get them started. Then your practice time will double as quality time with the kids.

Did anyone else see 3&1 and read it as a match-play score first?
...Everyone has to remember that it depends on the Course....A guy that plays a course like Oakmont is going to have a worse handicap than someone who plays a local VFW course. Granted i dont hava a handicap at Oakmont-but i play a damned hard course where they had the Western pennsylvania Open and im game there. Just realize that the course makes a huge difference--but it involves a lot of equations and stuff for the handicap thing to work.

No, Oakmont's players have higher scores for the same handicaps. That's why there's a course rating and slope rating.

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I'm a 3.4 index, which makes me a 4 handicap at my home course, but often in the last three months I've felt like a 10 or 12 handicapper, as I've struggled with my game a lot lately. The problem is that when I'm playing badly its usually just a few holes that I really screw up on, so I still get killed by the handicapping system, which only gives me a bogey on holes where I got a quad or trip. Anyways my home course has OB on almost every hole. At least half of the holes have OB on both sides of the fairway so its very penal. Its not a very long course, being only 6157 yards, but there are many difficult tee shots. Thankfully my game seems to be coming around again, but I'd sure like to test myself at championship course now that I've got a bit more game.

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I'm a 3.4 index, which makes me a 4 handicap at my home course, but often in the last three months I've felt like a 10 or 12 handicapper, as I've struggled with my game a lot lately. The problem is that when I'm playing badly its usually just a few holes that I really screw up on, so I still get killed by the handicapping system, which only gives me a bogey on holes where I got a quad or trip. Anyways my home course has OB on almost every hole. At least half of the holes have OB on both sides of the fairway so its very penal. Its not a very long course, being only 6157 yards, but there are many difficult tee shots. Thankfully my game seems to be coming around again, but I'd sure like to test myself at championship course now that I've got a bit more game.

Um, what handicap system are you using that you can only take a bogey? You need to take the score you had, then post based on the Equitable Stroke Control adjustment after the round. I have to say it is a big pet peeve of mine when people pick up saying they can only take X. If you are betting or playing in a tourney you need to play it down and your score is your score. ESC is only for posting in the handicap system, not for your final score.

Equitable Stroke Control Chart Course Handicap Maximum Score 0-9 Double Bogey 10-19 7 20-29 8 30-39 9 40 or more 10

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Sorry you misunderstood me. Actually I do write down my complete score at all times. If I take a 9, I write down 9. What I meant to say is that the person in charge of doing the handicap's at my club, uses the Atlantic system so ESC comes into it when he goes through the cards.

Um, what handicap system are you using that you can only take a bogey? You need to take the score you had, then post based on the Equitable Stroke Control adjustment after the round. I have to say it is a big pet peeve of mine when people pick up saying they can only take X. If you are betting or playing in a tourney you need to play it down and your score is your score. ESC is only for posting in the handicap system, not for your final score.

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...Everyone has to remember that it depends on the Course....A guy that plays a course like Oakmont is going to have a worse handicap than someone who plays a local VFW course.

thats where slope and rating come into play, and level out the playing field.

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It's a bit different down here in Australia, if you play with someone who is off scratch, that person can really play!

Down here in Australia most of our golf clubs are on the "Golf Link" system. Every single time you play a competition round at any participating club your handicap is updated most times within a few hours of the completion of your round (and when playing in a comp you play by the rules to the letter). For example, I play at my home club nearly every Saturday in the members comp, by the time I get home (after a couple of beers of course) I can log on to Golf Link and look up my current updated handicap. If for example during the week I go and play at a different club in their weekday open comp (for club members or members of another club) I use my handicap off Golf Link, when I turn up to play they'll ask me for my golf link number and they will verify my current handicap. By the time I get home they'll have already entered my round in to the computer at their course and my handicap will have been updated for me.

Our handicap system also works differently to yours in that we are handicapped on every single round we play, not just our last 10 or 20 rounds etc. Another thing that is different is the "par" we are handicapped against differs depending on how everyone else played at that course for the day. To simplify it, most courses will have a par of say 72. Once the days competition is all entered in to Golf Link, they add up the score that the first 15% of the field achieved and that becomes "par" or as we call it "CCR" for the day.

To give you an example, the course I usually play is a par 70, but the CCR is usually 68. Given my current handicap of three, I have to have 71 (1 over par) in most cases to play to my handicap. If I have more than 2 over given the CCR being 68, my handicap goes out by 0.1. If I break my handicap by more than 1 stroke, for every stroke more than 1 I lose 0.2.

The explanation above is a simplification, but it gives you the gist of how it works.

I use an American written stats program, and at the moment it tells me that my handicap is 0.3, whereas my Aussie Golf Link handicap is currently 3.4.

To play off scratch down here in Aust you pretty much need to be having under par most times you go out and play at the majority of our courses. As such we don't have very many scratch markers but those we do have can play.

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It's a bit different down here in Australia, if you play with someone who is off scratch, that person can really play!

Excellent chingali - this is the way we work in UK/Ireland also. Though I only lose 0.1 for every stroke under standard scratch - even tougher to get cut than in Oz!

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Time to re-open this thread!

In another thread the definition of a "TOP Rated Amateur" came up. It looks like to join many of the state and national level events you should be a 1 to 3 handicap. So, this is the definition of a top rating, so why not "scratch"?

On my last lesson, my instructor also pointed to a couple people who are 2 to 3 handicaps, and mentioned that they are also very rare. Most likely played through college. From some very rough research it looks like many pros are +2 to +5 handicap. This means that to be scratch, you are within 2 strokes per round of the some of the best players in the world.

First of all, is a scratch golfer that close to a pro for a single round?

Secondly, how many scratch golfers are there in total? If they are 0.1% of 36 million golfers, then there should be roughly 36,000 of them. Is this also true? Seem like too many to be true?

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Time to re-open this thread!

In another thread the definition of a "TOP Rated Amateur" came up. It looks like to join many of the state and national level events you should be a 1 to 3 handicap. So, this is the definition of a top rating, so why not "scratch"?

On my last lesson, my instructor also pointed to a couple people who are 2 to 3 handicaps, and mentioned that they are also very rare. Most likely played through college. From some very rough research it looks like many pros are +2 to +5 handicap. This means that to be scratch, you are within 2 strokes per round of the some of the best players in the world.

First of all, is a scratch golfer that close to a pro for a single round?

Secondly, how many scratch golfers are there in total? If they are 0.1% of 36 million golfers, then there should be roughly 36,000 of them. Is this also true? Seem like too many to be true?

I've always thought that the loose definition of scratch was somebody who hovered around a 0 handicap, not necessarily one who was actually a 0.0.

Basically, I'd probably consider anybody who could always keep their handicap under 2 a scratch golfer.  Anybody who could consistently stay on the other side of zero is exceptionally rare, I'd think.

I'd guess a "top rated" amateur would have to be somebody in the +2 or better range.  I mean, if you have to have a handicap under 1.4 just to be allowed to sign up for the US AM, and the vast majority of the people who sign up aren't even remotely close to being a top rated amateur, then that kind of narrows it down, I would think.

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I've always thought that the loose definition of scratch was somebody who hovered around a 0 handicap, not necessarily one who was actually a 0.0.

Basically, I'd probably consider anybody who could always keep their handicap under 2 a scratch golfer.  Anybody who could consistently stay on the other side of zero is exceptionally rare, I'd think.

I'd guess a "top rated" amateur would have to be somebody in the +2 or better range.  I mean, if you have to have a handicap under 1.4 just to be allowed to sign up for the US AM, and the vast majority of the people who sign up aren't even remotely close to being a top rated amateur, then that kind of narrows it down, I would think.

US AM is 2.4 and US OPEN is 1.4, not that I am keeping tabs. :whistle: I am with you though in that for me anything around a 1 is pretty much there.

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US AM is 2.4 and US OPEN is 1.4, not that I am keeping tabs.    I am with you though in that for me anything around a 1 is pretty much there.

And since its me and you and we're on the subject:  I have no set timetable, no "operation," no official written down goal, however, I've always thought that if I could just get to the point where I could play in some of these tournaments, I'd feel pretty accomplished.  To make it even easier for me, the US Mid-Am is, I think 4.4, and the State Mid-Am is 5.4 ... so getting solidly in position to try those tournaments is my, sort of, goal, at this point. :beer:

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[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/10582/scratch-golfers/30_30#post_948055"]   So how many scratch golfers exist, 1 or fractionally thereof, do you guys think in absolute numbers? [/QUOTE] Eleven.

Did you include yourself?

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