A “Solution” to the Growing Number of Gap Wedges

[iacas]

7 hours ago, nclra said:

Like with all the engineering computer modeling etc thats being used,  they cant build a proper launch angle into a pw thats higher lofted? That ridiculous on its face. Its a competition for 7 iron distance and the only way the get that is to lower the loft and increase the launch angle on your 7 iron..

If they built a “proper launch angle” but the 7I went 20 yards farther, what clubs fill in the gaps? Same thing.

Your bold text (my doing) is what they’re doing: less loft but higher launch.

[ChetlovesMer]

On 12/24/2020 at 2:14 AM, onthehunt526 said:

The Titleist T400 irons start with a 5-iron and go to PW then have a W1, W2, W3 which I think are 43, 48, 53 (I’d have to look to be sure.) But it got me thinking. If you’re having to put 2 Gap Wedges between your PW and SW, why not just call your current PW a 10-iron? I mean yes it’s a little radical, but so is 3 gap wedges. I mean why stop numbering irons at 9, when there are 11-woods at least in the major OEMs.

Personally, I like this idea. As others have said I don't "really" care what is written on the bottom of the club. But it would be kinda cool to have an 11 iron in the bag. 

It is funny though, I've actually heard guys who get very VERY angry over the lofts on some clubs. I've heard profanity laden tirades over how it's "unfair" that now some guys can hit their 7-iron such distance. And it's "unfair" because they have clubs with jacked lofts.

 

[colin007]

20 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

These SGI set “wedges” don’t act like wedges though. The T400 PW at best acts like a 9-iron, the W1 like a 10-iron and the W2 acts like an 11-iron... you can name all the irons ABCDEFG... and have Elmo, Rosetta, Murray, Zoe, Oscar the Grouch, and Big Bird talk about the iron of the day instead of the letter of the day.

But how is a wedge supposed to act? Are you hitting full wedges? If you're doing it right you should be hitting your wedges lower and your long irons higher...

[onthehunt526]

37 minutes ago, colin007 said:

But how is a wedge supposed to act? Are you hitting full wedges? If you're doing it right you should be hitting your wedges lower and your long irons higher...

I’m not necessarily talking about full shots @colin007. They act fine with full shots. (Though the distance control leaves something to be desired.) I do believe that they work for the handicaps/swing speeds they are designed for. But try hitting even a small chip shot with these things if you aren’t used to it, even the 48-50° wedge in these models, the face is very hot for short chips.

Gapping isn’t the issue if your 38° PW is your say 110 yard club. Which is sort of who these clubs are marketed for. But I still think it’s more of a 10-iron than a wedge. If you’re using a set PW and GW they’re more iron than wedge in the SGI category. In the GI category the Set PW is an iron but the GW does start to act like a wedge. In Players distance irons and players irons the wedges actually start being versatile enough to be called wedges. I understand the tradition of calling the club after 9-iron, a pitching wedge, but by definiton a wedge should be versatile enough to hit full shots down to a 5 foot chip... and it seems that SGI wedges of lower lofts fall short with that. That’s why I think they should continue with numbers on that.

[Golfingdad]

I agree with most who say it’s not really an issue.  That said, it would be a cool custom option (maybe some already do it?) to be able to tell them what you wanted on the bottom of the clubs.  Since it’s more common to have clubs above 9 than it is below 4, you could choose to label your 4I as a 1I and go from there.

Or, an idea I got from @boogielicious post (and this only works if you get new sets more frequently than I do) instead of a 1 digit number, but your actual full swing distances on there instead.  🙂

[TourSpoon]

I just ordered a 40 degree sand wedge and 44 degree lob wedge. No, I did not do that. Let's get a grip people as they have jobs that are anchored starting @55 degrees on average. But alas, the pitching wedge has become the Rodney Dangerfield of short irons, no respect for what it was designed to do and it can be 38 degrees now. When does it stop? I thought I would never play a 46 degree pitching wedge, but it happened and now you guys have hybrid 24 degree pitching wedges just to get under my skin. Pffffft! 

[onthehunt526]

28 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

I just ordered a 40 degree sand wedge and 44 degree lob wedge. No, I did not do that. Let's get a grip people as they have jobs that are anchored starting @55 degrees on average. But alas, the pitching wedge has become the Rodney Dangerfield of short irons, no respect for what it was designed to do and it can be 38 degrees now. When does it stop? I thought I would never play a 46 degree pitching wedge, but it happened and now you guys have hybrid 24 degree pitching wedges just to get under my skin. Pffffft! 

Just requiring people to buy more wedges that’s all. The longest iron in the T400 set is a “5-iron” and that’s 20° since when did my 3-iron get stamped with a 5

[billchao]

2 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Just requiring people to buy more wedges that’s all.

Are you insinuating that it’s all a marketing gimmick to get people to buy more wedges?

A set of eight irons is eight clubs no matter what they stamp on the bottom of them. You’re still only allowed six more in your bag and presumably one of them is a putter.

5 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

The longest iron in the T400 set is a “5-iron” and that’s 20° since when did my 3-iron get stamped with a 5

You have a 3i where your buddy has a 5i. You have a driver, a 3w, and a 2i longer that, like he has a driver, a 4w, and a hybrid of some sort. You both round out the bottom end of your bag with 2 wedges.

Its basically the same golf bag. Where is this guy fitting in the extra “gap” wedges you’re talking about? Why does a moderate (that’s marketing for slow, BTW) swing speed player need multiple wedges to fill gaps they probably don’t have to begin with?

[nclra]

2 iron is now a 5 iron... so todays iron set is  1990 lofts 2 iron thru 7 iron. and your wedges are 1990's  8 thru sw. todays irons are easier to hit  and you now need 4 wedges to cover all the distances.  progress... just change the damn number on the bottom of the club to what the loft is... 

Iron Specifications

 

[onthehunt526]

9 minutes ago, billchao said:

Are you insinuating that it’s all a marketing gimmick to get people to buy more wedges?

A set of eight irons is eight clubs no matter what they stamp on the bottom of them. You’re still only allowed six more in your bag and presumably one of them is a putter.

You have a 3i where your buddy has a 5i. You have a driver, a 3w, and a 2i longer that, like he has a driver, a 4w, and a hybrid of some sort. You both round out the bottom end of your bag with 2 wedges.

Its basically the same golf bag. Where is this guy fitting in the extra “gap” wedges you’re talking about? Why does a moderate (that’s marketing for slow, BTW) swing speed player need multiple wedges to fill gaps they probably don’t have to begin with?

Actually almost no one sells irons in a “set” anymore. They do. But custom orders they’ve started to do the set divided by 8 or 7 for individual clubs instead of a little more for individual clubs.

All I’m saying is SGI iron set “wedges” are not wedges they’re irons.

By the way, I don’t carry the 2 iron anymore. I play Driver, 3-wood, 3-iron at the top for now.

And for the record, I wouldn’t carry T400s even in my left handed set.

6 minutes ago, nclra said:

2 iron is now a 5 iron... so todays iron set is  1990 lofts 2 iron thru 7 iron. and your wedges are 1990's  8 thru sw. todays irons are easier to hit  and you now need 4 wedges to cover all the distances.  progress... just change the damn number on the bottom of the club to what the loft is... 

Iron Specifications

 

Actually my irons are as follows:

3-iron: 19.5°

4-iron: 22°

5-iron: 24.5°

6-iron: 27.5°

7-iron: 31.5°

8-iron: 36°

9-iron: 41°

Pitching wedge: 46°

Approach wedge: 51°

54° wedge: 55°

58° wedge: 59°

[billchao]

10 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Or, an idea I got from @boogielicious post (and this only works if you get new sets more frequently than I do) instead of a 1 digit number, but your actual full swing distances on there instead.  🙂

Ok, I got 150 to the green. Hand me my 185.

I bought the clubs on eBay 

57 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Actually almost no one sells irons in a “set” anymore. They do. But custom orders they’ve started to do the set divided by 8 or 7 for individual clubs instead of a little more for individual clubs.

I mean a set as in the collection of irons in your bag. Whether you buy seven or eight from a manufacturer, or a bunch of 4 irons from Goodwill like A-Rod, it's still a set of irons.

59 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

All I’m saying is SGI iron set “wedges” are not wedges they’re irons.

I've been saying that for years about the wedges in iron sets, not just SGI ones. Even got into a debate in a thread about what a "wedge" is.

10 hours ago, onthehunt526 said:

I understand the tradition of calling the club after 9-iron, a pitching wedge, but by definiton a wedge should be versatile enough to hit full shots down to a 5 foot chip... and it seems that SGI wedges of lower lofts fall short with that.

In my mind a wedge is a specific type of design for a golf club or a combination of certain elements, but not necessarily the utility of it. People hit chips with 7 irons and hybrids, after all. Or flop shots with 3 irons.

Ultimately the versatility of a golf club is limited by two major factors: design and the skill of the user, the more important of which is the latter. You'll have a hard time trying to hit an open face flop shot off a tight lie with the xE1 wedge, but a PGA Tour professional can do more with a wedge from an SGI iron set than high handicap player can with a Vokey.

[TourSpoon]

18 hours ago, billchao said:

I've been saying that for years about the wedges in iron sets, not just SGI ones. Even got into a debate in a thread about what a "wedge" is.

In my mind a wedge is a specific type of design for a golf club or a combination of certain elements, but not necessarily the utility of it. People hit chips with 7 irons and hybrids, after all. Or flop shots with 3 irons.

But yet the Sand and Lob Wedge monikers have been held sacred by their utility and loft. Hence me calling the Pitching Wedge the Rodney Dangerfield of the wedge family getting no respect.  To the OP's point, is there a line to be drawn? Will we see the 24* degree wedge followed by 7 gap wedges? 

Here is a 4 iron flop, for those who don't carry a 3 iron. It's a hair more forgiving around the greens. 

 

 

[nclra]

On 12/28/2020 at 10:09 AM, colin007 said:

But how is a wedge supposed to act? Are you hitting full wedges? If you're doing it right you should be hitting your wedges lower and your long irons higher...

Each club has a job to do. I want to control distance and spin. a 38 degree " wedge" is just a 7 iron renumbered to a PW..  not a wedge at all.  you might want a 38 degree wedge.. Ill take something with more loft and more spin. lets see who has better control.

[onthehunt526]

15 minutes ago, nclra said:

Each club has a job to do. I want to control distance and spin. a 38 degree " wedge" is just a 7 iron renumbered to a PW..  not a wedge at all.  you might want a 38 degree wedge.. Ill take something with more loft and more spin. lets see who has better control.

This is why I thought that when the Ben Hogan Ft. Worth 15 irons first came out, the lofts on the bottom were brilliant because you could literally call a club whatever the hell you wanted.

[billchao]

18 minutes ago, nclra said:

Each club has a job to do. I want to control distance and spin. a 38 degree " wedge" is just a 7 iron renumbered to a PW..  not a wedge at all.  you might want a 38 degree wedge.. Ill take something with more loft and more spin. lets see who has better control.

This is bordering on ridiculous. Each club has a job to do? They’re tools. Some are better than others for certain situations and worse at others. Sometimes a greenside shot calls for a 56° wedge and sometimes it calls for a 7i. And plenty of times, both can get the job done just as well.

Controlling spin also means not spinning the ball too much when the ball needs to release. It’s not more loft = more spin = better short game. That again comes down to the skill of the individual player.

[nclra]

2 minutes ago, billchao said:

This is bordering on ridiculous. Each club has a job to do? They’re tools. Some are better than others for certain situations and worse at others. Sometimes a greenside shot calls for a 56° wedge and sometimes it calls for a 7i. And plenty of times, both can get the job done just as well.

Controlling spin also means not spinning the ball too much when the ball needs to release. It’s not more loft = more spin = better short game. That again comes down to the skill of the individual player.

then what purpose does calling it  " wedge" serve other than selling clubs? Thats what's ridiculous...

[billchao]

1 minute ago, nclra said:

then what purpose does calling it  " wedge" serve other than selling clubs? Thats what's ridiculous...

Oh it absolutely is ridiculous, but why is it even a big deal? Who cares if they call a club a wedge or a 7 iron or a niblick? If the marketing convinces people to buy their clubs and it helps them enjoy the game more, great! Let them sell clubs so they can make money to keep developing the clubs that are suited for my game.

[nclra]

8 minutes ago, billchao said:

Oh it absolutely is ridiculous, but why is it even a big deal? Who cares if they call a club a wedge or a 7 iron or a niblick? If the marketing convinces people to buy their clubs and it helps them enjoy the game more, great! Let them sell clubs so they can make money to keep developing the clubs that are suited for my game.

some people need help at the top of the bag, others at the bottom. calling them the same club is the issue for me.  There is lots of confusion lack of clarity etc.  I guess caveat emptor..