A “Solution” to the Growing Number of Gap Wedges

[nclra]

41 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

This is why I thought that when the Ben Hogan Ft. Worth 15 irons first came out, the lofts on the bottom were brilliant because you could literally call a club whatever the hell you wanted.

exactly! but then the other brands cant say their 7 irons goes the farthest.... because its a straight comparison.

[billchao]

39 minutes ago, nclra said:

some people need help at the top of the bag, others at the bottom. calling them the same club is the issue for me.  There is lots of confusion lack of clarity etc.  I guess caveat emptor..

The target market for the Titleist T400 clubs does not need to fill their bag with multiple wedges to fill gaps. People with slow swing speeds don’t have large gaps to begin with and the 49° W2 likely slots exactly where it needs to be ahead of their SW.

On the other side, the long irons are easier to launch and that makes them more playable for these players. That’s more fun and maybe even lowers their scores a bit because they have a 180 club again.

If these kind of clubs aren’t designed for your game, stop trying to make sense of them through that lens. A Lamborghini isn’t a bad car just because it’s not as safe as a Volvo and neither is a Volvo because it can’t do a 10 second quarter mile. They’re just different, with different design philosophies and target markets.

[nclra]

10 minutes ago, billchao said:

The target market for the Titleist T400 clubs does not need to fill their bag with multiple wedges to fill gaps. People with slow swing speeds don’t have large gaps to begin with and the 49° W2 likely slots exactly where it needs to be ahead of their SW.

On the other side, the long irons are easier to launch and that makes them more playable for these players. That’s more fun and maybe even lowers their scores a bit because they have a 180 club again.

If these kind of clubs aren’t designed for your game, stop trying to make sense of them through that lens. A Lamborghini isn’t a bad car just because it’s not as safe as a Volvo and neither is a Volvo because it can’t do a 10 second quarter mile. They’re just different, with different design philosophies and target markets.

why should I stop? because you dont like how my thinking is different then yours? you agree so its ok? I dont agree so Im wrong?

[billchao]

5 minutes ago, nclra said:

why should I stop? because you dont like how my thinking is different then yours? you agree so its ok? I dont agree so Im wrong?

I’m just trying to explain that you might be looking at it from the wrong perspective. You seem to completely misunderstand what I’m saying.

[iacas]

@nclra, my wedges have numbers 1, 2, and 3 on them. They’d be the same clubs if they had Wilma, Fred, and Barney stamped on them, wouldn’t they?

[onthehunt526]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

@nclra, my wedges have numbers 1, 2, and 3 on them. They’d be the same clubs if they had Wilma, Fred, and Barney stamped on them, wouldn’t they?

Yes, @iacas your wedges would be the same. 
 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Yes, @iacas your wedges would be the same. 
 

Right, so what’s it actually matter what’s stamped on them?

Get clubs that fit the spots you need them to fit in your bag. Done.

[TourSpoon]

What did we learn today? The Sand Wedge and Lob Wedge are sacred by most manufacturers due to utility and function, the term pitching wedge means nothing other than being the iron after the 9 iron, no one got (or acknowledged) the Rodney Dangerfield reference, and that @iacashas a penchant for the Flintstones. The only question left is the obvious. Does he call his driver Betty? It would make sense because everyone knows that Betty was the bomb! 

[boogielicious]

9 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

What did we learn today? The Sand Wedge and Lob Wedge are sacred by most manufacturers due to utility and function, the term pitching wedge means nothing other than being the iron after the 9 iron, no one got (or acknowledged) the Rodney Dangerfield reference, and that @iacashas a penchant for the Flintstones. The only question left is the obvious. Does he call his driver Betty? It would make sense because everyone knows that Betty was the bomb! 

Are they really that sacred though? Very few stamp “S” or “L” on the bottom any more. They all stamp the loft and some add the bounce or grind. Also, I think the driver would be Bam Bam, no?😀

[TourSpoon]

22 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Are they really that sacred though? Very few stamp “S” or “L” on the bottom any more. They all stamp the loft and some add the bounce or grind. Also, I think the driver would be Bam Bam, no?😀

They are more sacred than anything else in golf and most companies may not label them but they do categorize them in their marketing materials as such. I will give you Bam Bam and revise my Betty reference for the putter! 

[DaveP043]

I think it would be best if we simply go back to the old designations, brassie, niblick, rut iron, and all the rest.  FWIW, I remember seeing a 10 iron at least once (can't remember the manufacturer), and I know that Hogan at one time labeled the iron with more loft than the 9-iron with an E, for Equalizer.  Whatever, as long as I know which club to select for a xxx-yard shot, I'm happy, I don't care what's written on the bottom of it.

[boogielicious]

33 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

They are more sacred than anything else in golf and most companies may not label them but they do categorize them in their marketing materials as such. I will give you Bam Bam and revise my Betty reference for the putter! 

 

[ChetlovesMer]

On 12/28/2020 at 9:41 PM, onthehunt526 said:

All I’m saying is SGI iron set “wedges” are not wedges they’re irons.

I agree with you on this in many ways. I would also say I actually prefer it that way. I like to use my pitching (45 degrees) and gap wedge (50 degrees for reference) to hit full shots. Therefore, I prefer it to look and act a lot more like an iron than a wedge. I also DON'T like a "wedge shaft" in either my pitching or my gap wedge. I find the wedge shaft makes it harder to flight the wedge down, which I try to to a lot with both the pitching and the gap wedge. I like to use the same shaft (and same head style actually) for the PW and GW as in the 8 and 9 irons. I find that helps me with my full shots. 

If I want to bump and run or chip with the PW or GW I have no problems doing so with the "iron" style shafts. But I do have problems hitting full shots and flighted shots with the "wedge" shafts. I will also bump and run or chip with the 6 - 9 ions as well as my hybrid sometimes as well. Those have more "iron" style shafts and it works fine. 

I carry 4 wedges but the only 2 that have "wedge" shafts in them are the sand wedge (54 degrees) and the lob wedge (58 or 60 degrees depending). Those two have "wedge" shafts in them and I never ever ever hit full shots with them. 

So, if they wanted to change my PW and GW to a 10 and 11 iron I'd have no problem with it at all. Because that's how I use them. However, if they leave them PW and GW (actually it's labeled AW) I'm perfectly fine with that too. 

I mean, come on, if this was the biggest problem I had to deal with in my life it would be pretty awesome. 

10 hours ago, iacas said:

Right, so what’s it actually matter what’s stamped on them?

Get clubs that fit the spots you need them to fit in your bag. Done.

@iacas. That's the obvious answer.

I'm enjoying this little discussion. No, it's not any kind of critical issue which needs to be solved. But it's a nice distraction that's fun to chit chat about on this forum where I enjoy hanging out. 

[billchao]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

Are they really that sacred though? Very few stamp “S” or “L” on the bottom any more. They all stamp the loft and some add the bounce or grind.

I think very few manufacturers stamp their “real wedges” with anything other than the loft. They do it with their set “wedges” though, like PW, AW, UW.

Not many even offer a sand or lob wedge with their iron sets. The only one I can think of is Ping. They do it with their GI clubs like the G410, but I don’t think many people are ordering the sand wedge from the iron set anyway. They usually just order 4-GW (U in Ping) or something.

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Hogan at one time labeled the iron with more loft than the 9-iron with an E, for Equalizer

That was a Hogan thing, yea. My Apex II set has an E instead of a PW.

[TourSpoon]

 

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I'm enjoying this little discussion. No, it's not any kind of critical issue which needs to be solved. But it's a nice distraction that's fun to chit chat about on this forum where I enjoy hanging out. 

Me too. Its more philosophical for me, but I cut my teeth on 48-56-60 for the longest time. I am not losing any sleep and think its a little funny when someone tells me they bomb their pitching wedge 150 but only hit their driver 230.  Approach wedge, gap wedge, 11 iron, whatever, it still comes down to getting the ball in the hole in the least amount of strokes. Play on gentlemen! 

[onthehunt526]

On 12/30/2020 at 7:36 AM, boogielicious said:

Are they really that sacred though? Very few stamp “S” or “L” on the bottom any more. They all stamp the loft and some add the bounce or grind. Also, I think the driver would be Bam Bam, no?😀

Ping puts S and L on theirs, (if they’re part if the iron set) and so does Cleveland on their SmartSole wedges, and Mizuno on their JPX 900 and 919 wedges. 
 

The problem causing all of this bullshit, is the long end of the iron set. You dont need a 18 or 19 degree 4-iron, I don’t care where you say you’re putting the weight. It’s a myth, it’s 4-6 mm lower than a blade, that’s all. So 21° should be sufficient for a 4-iron, and no more of this 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 4.5, 5, 5.5, 5.5, 7 gapping shit. The long end is too compressed and the short end is far apart. Titleist to their credit does do this in the meat of the T400 set. I think it goes 20, 23, 26, 29, 33, 38, 43, 48, 53 something like that i’d have to look. I’m not saying that 4° between every club is correct, I’m saying the Compressed longer iron gaps are creating the wedge problem. 
 

The 4-iron is can not be hit consistently by one carrying SGI irons anyway. But loft compression at the long end is causing these dumb ass lofted pitching wedge lofts and the need for 2-3 clubs between your “P club” and your traditional sand wedge.

Loft compression in the long irons is what has caused this.

[boogielicious]

16 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Ping puts S and L on theirs, (if they’re part if the iron set) and so does Cleveland on their SmartSole wedges, and Mizuno on their JPX 900 and 919 wedges. 
 

The problem causing all of this bullshit, is the long end of the iron set. You dont need a 18 or 19 degree 4-iron, I don’t care where you say you’re putting the weight. It’s a myth, it’s 4-6 mm lower than a blade, that’s all. So 21° should be sufficient for a 4-iron, and no more of this 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 4.5, 5, 5.5, 5.5, 7 gapping shit. The long end is too compressed and the short end is far apart. Titleist to their credit does do this in the meat of the T400 set. I think it goes 20, 23, 26, 29, 33, 38, 43, 48, 53 something like that i’d have to look. I’m not saying that 4° between every club is correct, I’m saying the Compressed longer iron gaps are creating the wedge problem. 
 

The 4-iron is can not be hit consistently by one carrying SGI irons anyway. But loft compression at the long end is causing these dumb ass lofted pitching wedge lofts and the need for 2-3 clubs between your “P club” and your traditional sand wedge.

Loft compression in the long irons is what has caused this.

My 4 iron is 24 degrees. My 4H is 23. But my irons are cavity back.

[onthehunt526]

12 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

My 4 iron is 24 degrees. My 4H is 23. But my irons are cavity back.

Scott I don’t know what kind of irons you have, but I’m guessing not T400s? Or Epic Stars?