Patrick Reed - The Man, the Child Abuse (?), Redemption (??)

[Bonvivant]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

And yet people have opinions on him as a human, no?

And those opinions could be changed with this information, no?

Perhaps. But for me, I try not to form opinions about people as a whole unless I know them personally or have had multiple interactions. Sure, others may be more quick to judge and form an opinion on him as a human, but I don't think they have any grounds in doing so.

"As a golfer" makes the most sense to me for the question, and I think that the question should be clarified if it is meant to be "as a person". Many on the forum have the opinion that Tiger (or Jack) is the GOAT, but I think we all know that they are talking about golf and not him as a full person.

[SEMI_Duffer]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Is someone who steals a loaf of bread to feed their children a thief who should be sentenced to jail?

Virtually nothing is black and white. And again, there's more to the guy that a rules incident or three.

Stealing is stealing.  I don't know about jail for a loaf of bread, but restitution should be made.

As for the guy that breaks the rules, that cheats, in a game of golf: I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Perhaps. But for me, I try not to form opinions about people as a whole

Nobody's saying you have to form an opinion of him "as a whole."

Get off the fence.

5 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

"As a golfer" makes the most sense to me for the question

He's a human who plays golf. You keep saying "as a golfer," but that's still a part of who he is as a human, unless you're literally talking about his GIR % and his average driver distance.

5 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Many on the forum have the opinion that Tiger (or Jack) is the GOAT, but I think we all know that they are talking about golf and not him as a full person.

That's different, and has been clarified many times in the topic.

Also, some people vote for Jack and specifically cite off-course stuff against Tiger, which they're free to do if they want to weight that into their GOAT vote.

4 minutes ago, SEMI_Duffer said:

Stealing is stealing.

Life doesn't work that way.

4 minutes ago, SEMI_Duffer said:

As for the guy that breaks the rules, that cheats, in a game of golf: I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

We don't disagree because we're not even talking about the same thing.

Nobody's saying he didn't cheat, or something.

[Bonvivant]

Just now, iacas said:

Nobody's saying you have to form an opinion of him "as a whole."

Get off the fence.

I'm not on the fence. I wish the OP would clarify what they meant. After continuing thought on it, my answer is "no" for either scenario. Because I don't have an opinion on him as a person, it can't really change, and as a golfer any abuse suffered does not change my opinion of his golf.

[Phil McGleno]

Clarify what?-He is a golfer and a human-He is not a robot.

You work at a job right?-People there probably have opinions about you based on how much they see you smiling or how hard you work or your emails or whatevs-Even though you may not even see them outside of work.

And @SEMI_Duffer the world is not black and white and people are not ever some thing because they did some thing once, or else every-body on earth is a liar and a cheater and a moron and a criminal and a thief and so on.

[Bonvivant]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

He's a human who plays golf. You keep saying "as a golfer," but that's still a part of who he is as a human, unless you're literally talking about his GIR % and his average driver distance.

I guess perhaps I could have reworded or been more clear. I should say "through the lens of professional golf". We don't see him in any other way. We haven't sat down for a dinner or had a drink with him, and most of us haven't even slapped 5 or got an autograph from him. Any opinion formed is from watching his play, or listening to him or commentators. To me, that is all golf stuff. Aside from this topic, I never knew a thing about the guy that wasn't directly golf related.

[iacas]

@Bonvivant I have no problem with you now. You got off the fence. 😄

[Bonvivant]

1 minute ago, Phil McGleno said:

You work at a job right?-People there probably have opinions about you based on how much they see you smiling or how hard you work or your emails or whatevs-Even though you may not even see them outside of work.

Those people have direct interaction with me, and I would think have a very good idea of who I am as a person outside of work as well. Do you know any of P. Reeds hobbies? or favorite foods? My co-workers know these things about me.

[Phil McGleno]

2 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Those people have direct interaction with me, and I would think have a very good idea of who I am as a person outside of work as well. Do you know any of P. Reeds hobbies? or favorite foods? My co-workers know these things about me.

OMG-I obviously do not know where you work so maybe picture a workplace where you see someone who works at your company now and then but never really interact with them-They still have an opinion of you and you probably have one of them-Even if it is just based on how they dress or smell or because you saw them angry on a phone call one time two years ago.

It does not have to be a strong opinion but people still form opinions even though they might just see how he behaves after he hits a good shot or an interview or a speech he gives after winning an event.

[Bonvivant]

11 minutes ago, Phil McGleno said:

OMG-I obviously do not know where you work so maybe picture a workplace where you see someone who works at your company now and then but never really interact with them-They still have an opinion of you and you probably have one of them-Even if it is just based on how they dress or smell or because you saw them angry on a phone call one time two years ago.

It does not have to be a strong opinion but people still form opinions even though they might just see how he behaves after he hits a good shot or an interview or a speech he gives after winning an event.

I know too many people that act very different on the golf course than they do in day to day life. Usually the change is for the worse. The opinions that would be formed in your last sentence, I would think of as golf things.

I inferred coworker, which you never said, and I took to mean as someone that you work with directly. I don't really spend time thinking about people in my work place that I don't talk to/work with directly. I know their names, and I am friendly with them, but I don't have opinions on them because I don't know them.

[CarlSpackler]

I answered no, but I try not to form an opinion of people unless I actually know the jerk personally. 

[Shorty]

My opinion of him doesn't change.

But it makes me admire Sean O'Hair even more.

[Wanzo]

I voted yes.  i had heard a couple negative stories from friends who played junior golf with him so that jaded my opinion.  But it's a good reminder that people generally judge folks without any context and give themselves the benefit of the doubt or a pass because of context.  

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, Wanzo said:

I voted yes.  i had heard a couple negative stories from friends who played junior golf with him so that jaded my opinion.  But it's a good reminder that people generally judge folks without any context and give themselves the benefit of the doubt or a pass because of context.  

Very much true.

[Braivo]

I have never really held a negative opinion of Reed. Tremendous talent. Probably a much tougher upbringing than most PGA Tour pros to begin with. Probably lights a fire that makes him as good as he is. 

[DeadMan]

Yes, it would change my opinion of him a little bit. I would feel a little more positive toward him. 

This reminds me of a vibe I got when those articles about Reed's parents came out after his Masters win in 2018:

The way Reed's parents act make me feel like these abuse rumors are true...

[paperclip]

I voted no as he is what he is. The alleged child abuse (if true) would be unfortunate and could explain why he seems to disown his parents. His personality could still be what it is, with or without the alleged abuse. To me, it's none of my business and if he wants to talk about it, that would be his choice and not mine.

Notwithstanding all this, he is still a great golfer who would beat me with one hand and one foot tied behind his back and I appreciate him for what he is.

 

[iacas]