Trying to Hit a Draw Is Turning Me Into Mr. Dumpy Diapers…

[klineka 848]

9 minutes ago, Hevdar Destroyer of Turf said:

In part I'm trying to hit a draw for extra distance and in part because winds at my coarse commonly reach 20-25mph sustained with 30mph gusts. Hitting a fade into a 20mph headwind, is not my idea of fun.

This makes no sense. When DJ goes overseas and plays in The Open he isn't suddenly going to start slinging draws everywhere just because it's windy. Learn to control your trajectory and spin and you will play better in the wind. I'd rather hit a fade and be able to control my trajectory and spin than hit a high towering draw with no control on height or spin.

Also, when ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate are the same, a draw and fade will carry and roll the same distance and some players they actually hit their fades further than their draws.

Draw or Fade To Maximize Distance? - TrackMan Golf

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I have heard from students that “draws go further than fade,” but I’ve always wondered if this was really true when I first started teaching. It’s an interesting topic of discussion because everyon…

11 minutes ago, Hevdar Destroyer of Turf said:

I wasn't exposed, my wife and kid were and they have remained at her mom's because of it.

You just said you were in isolation too but ok dude.

[woodzie264 458]

1 hour ago, Hevdar Destroyer of Turf said:

 

I might drive up to the range later today or tomorrow and record some new video. Gotta find the tripod. 

At the range, I just set my phone on a table at waist height, but they make these cool little snake looking phone holders that you can attach anywhere; this is just one example:

Selfie Snake Universal Phone Stand - Black - Walmart.com - Walmart.com

 

[Hevdar Destroyer of Turf 0]

2 hours ago, klineka said:

This makes no sense. When DJ goes overseas and plays in The Open he isn't suddenly going to start slinging draws everywhere just because it's windy. Learn to control your trajectory and spin and you will play better in the wind. I'd rather hit a fade and be able to control my trajectory and spin than hit a high towering draw with no control on height or spin.

Also, when ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate are the same, a draw and fade will carry and roll the same distance and some players they actually hit their fades further than their draws.

Draw or Fade To Maximize Distance? - TrackMan Golf

---

I have heard from students that “draws go further than fade,” but I’ve always wondered if this was really true when I first started teaching. It’s an interesting topic of discussion because everyon…

You just said you were in isolation too but ok dude.

I understand that if speed, launch, and spin are the same so is distance. Hole one at my course is 405 yards straight tee to green. A couple of months ago I hit a gentle fade to within 10 yards of the 100 yard marker, center fairway. Literally days later I hit a gentle draw to the same exact spot. However, a face open to path encourages a strike closer to the heel while a face closed to path encourages a strike more out of the toe, making the hot spot that's above center towards the toe a more likely impact location. And as far as old covid, wife was at her mom's when her brother showed up out of the blue saying he doesn't feel sick anymore... so they stayed. Just considering that I'm the only soul in my house I would call that isolated. Well there's the fish in the fish tank. If it came off like I'm quarantined, I'm not. So there would be nothing irresponsible about going to the range.  Dude.

[DaveP043 2,437]

3 hours ago, Hevdar Destroyer of Turf said:

In part I'm trying to hit a draw for extra distance and in part because winds at my coarse commonly reach 20-25mph sustained with 30mph gusts. Hitting a fade into a 20mph headwind, is not my idea of fun.

Based on the swing speed you mentioned earlier, distance is unlikely to be the primary obstacle to you improving your scoring.  I play to about a 5 handicap, and I'd happily take your wind-blocked fade if its in play.  Of course, you haven't indicated what your scores typically are, or what your handicap is.  If you're a 16 handicapper who can (occasionally) hit it 300 yards, that's one thing.  If you're a scratch trying to get to Plus handicap numbers its a different thing.  That information should definitely go in your My Swing post, but you might also consider filling out more of your profile.

 

[Hevdar Destroyer of Turf 0]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Based on the swing speed you mentioned earlier, distance is unlikely to be the primary obstacle to you improving your scoring.  I play to about a 5 handicap, and I'd happily take your wind-blocked fade if its in play.  Of course, you haven't indicated what your scores typically are, or what your handicap is.  If you're a 16 handicapper who can (occasionally) hit it 300 yards, that's one thing.  If you're a scratch trying to get to Plus handicap numbers its a different thing.  That information should definitely go in your My Swing post, but you might also consider filling out more of your profile.

 

Ok this is a good response. I'm definitely not a 5 handicap or scratch golfer but I think I could be a scratch golfer. This is why I'm so frustrated.  Here is my reasoning... I hit it mostly out of the middle. And I can send the ball flying... In the beginning  I had kind of a necky shot on the heel, when I started to draw the ball I started to get the occasional toe... theses days its mostly middle with the miss too high in the face. That's why I'm "the Destroyer of Turf" I had a tendency to take a pretty large divot. Now, this didn't always result in a bad shot. I stuck some greens with those. Drop and stop. And as far as the fade goes... launch monitors confirmed the reason most people who fade what to draw. When you fade the ball, you can easily  swing 120 and send the ball only 250- 270.  And I mean with like 165+ ball speed if your spin goes plus 3000. On a 400 yard hole that could be the difference of several clubs. For example if I spin one hard I might be looking at 8 or 9 iron into the green versus when I send one hard, with low spin and I'm looking at sand wedge. Its possible if I just hit a fade only I could lower my score, because when i hit fades I typically hit fairways these days, if 250 tee shot or over 300, I'm typically  on the short grass. But some holes just aren't very fade friendly just like some holes aren't draw friendly. The thing is the fade is a very reliable shot, you can definitely find fairway with it. But it seems to me that the margin of error on spin is less with a draw. From looking at my numbers versus YouTuber pros this seems to be consistent. A draw bias player may tend to spin the ball 500 rpm more on a bad strike where a fade bias player may spin it an extra 1000. Anyways,  as far as handicap I'm not really sure. I'm as likely to score over 100 as I am to shoot in the mid eighties. I don't cheat even when I'm only playing against myself. I'm kinda Tom Watson on honesty. If you played golf with me you'd likely see some huge drives and some modest ones, a few stuck greens with a few missed left or right or short. I don't hardly three put anymore, however I'm just as likely to make a 20 footer then miss a three footer. I'm good at huge obvious breaks on the green even from far out, not so good with those subtle breaks. Now I will say this. A fade is usually more likely to miss short than long. Draws tend to miss long. Irons and driver included. And most courses, including my own, punish you hard if you miss long. So in general I think draw players have a slightly better idea of how far the ball will actually travel but fade players usually get a better lie but have to deal with a more variable amount of distance. Anyways, I haven't yet been golfing for two years, I've not yet had a lesson, but I'm soaking it up like a sponge. Literally a few weeks before lock down a club salesman, I wont say which store, was evaluating me on a launch monitor. I asked for a 3w. I smacked it 280. He said, "damn!" At the end of the session he asked me how long I had been playing. I told him, not yet a year. He told me i was doing great then got kinda in my personal space and said, "don't spend $2000-$3000 on new clubs, get lessons." Anyways,  the pandemic led me to not get lessons. 

[Hevdar Destroyer of Turf 0]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Based on the swing speed you mentioned earlier, distance is unlikely to be the primary obstacle to you improving your scoring.  I play to about a 5 handicap, and I'd happily take your wind-blocked fade if its in play.  Of course, you haven't indicated what your scores typically are, or what your handicap is.  If you're a 16 handicapper who can (occasionally) hit it 300 yards, that's one thing.  If you're a scratch trying to get to Plus handicap numbers its a different thing.  That information should definitely go in your My Swing post, but you might also consider filling out more of your profile.

 

In addition to all this, I've seen old, over the hill golfers on my home coarse post low scores, with horrible low swing speeds usually sending the ball lower than it should really fly. And young golfers post high scores with faster swing speeds than mine and with pretty nice looking ball flights. Something leads me to think I might be missing the point of all this somewhere....

[Darkfrog 151]

2 hours ago, Hevdar Destroyer of Turf said:

Ok this is a good response. I'm definitely not a 5 handicap or scratch golfer but I think I could be a scratch golfer. This is why I'm so frustrated.  Here is my reasoning... I hit it mostly out of the middle. And I can send the ball flying... In the beginning  I had kind of a necky shot on the heel, when I started to draw the ball I started to get the occasional toe... theses days its mostly middle with the miss too high in the face. That's why I'm "the Destroyer of Turf" I had a tendency to take a pretty large divot. Now, this didn't always result in a bad shot. I stuck some greens with those. Drop and stop. And as far as the fade goes... launch monitors confirmed the reason most people who fade what to draw. When you fade the ball, you can easily  swing 120 and send the ball only 250- 270.  And I mean with like 165+ ball speed if your spin goes plus 3000. On a 400 yard hole that could be the difference of several clubs. For example if I spin one hard I might be looking at 8 or 9 iron into the green versus when I send one hard, with low spin and I'm looking at sand wedge. Its possible if I just hit a fade only I could lower my score, because when i hit fades I typically hit fairways these days, if 250 tee shot or over 300, I'm typically  on the short grass. But some holes just aren't very fade friendly just like some holes aren't draw friendly. The thing is the fade is a very reliable shot, you can definitely find fairway with it. But it seems to me that the margin of error on spin is less with a draw. From looking at my numbers versus YouTuber pros this seems to be consistent. A draw bias player may tend to spin the ball 500 rpm more on a bad strike where a fade bias player may spin it an extra 1000. Anyways,  as far as handicap I'm not really sure. I'm as likely to score over 100 as I am to shoot in the mid eighties. I don't cheat even when I'm only playing against myself. I'm kinda Tom Watson on honesty. If you played golf with me you'd likely see some huge drives and some modest ones, a few stuck greens with a few missed left or right or short. I don't hardly three put anymore, however I'm just as likely to make a 20 footer then miss a three footer. I'm good at huge obvious breaks on the green even from far out, not so good with those subtle breaks. Now I will say this. A fade is usually more likely to miss short than long. Draws tend to miss long. Irons and driver included. And most courses, including my own, punish you hard if you miss long. So in general I think draw players have a slightly better idea of how far the ball will actually travel but fade players usually get a better lie but have to deal with a more variable amount of distance. Anyways, I haven't yet been golfing for two years, I've not yet had a lesson, but I'm soaking it up like a sponge. Literally a few weeks before lock down a club salesman, I wont say which store, was evaluating me on a launch monitor. I asked for a 3w. I smacked it 280. He said, "damn!" At the end of the session he asked me how long I had been playing. I told him, not yet a year. He told me i was doing great then got kinda in my personal space and said, "don't spend $2000-$3000 on new clubs, get lessons." Anyways,  the pandemic led me to not get lessons. 

I don’t have any swing advice to offer (I’m no expert by any means) but there’s a lot to read in the quoted post and paragraphs would help a lot.

[OTT 0]

I think we might be built alike. Just getting the club "in the slot" on the way down almost gives my right lat a charley horse. That being said, on days that I am able to swing from the inside (as much as I am able to) I end up hitting push fades if I forget to bring the clubface back to square.

I can usually remedy this clubface issue by using a "motorcycle grip" revving motion with the pinky part of my lead hand to square the face. Some people say to just bow the lead wrist to close the clubface but when I use this swing thought I end up bowing towards the index finger which keeps my clubface open.

[klineka 848]

10 hours ago, Hevdar Destroyer of Turf said:

Ok this is a good response. I'm definitely not a 5 handicap or scratch golfer but I think I could be a scratch golfer. This is why I'm so frustrated.  Here is my reasoning... I hit it mostly out of the middle. And I can send the ball flying... 

Do you track your stats? Things like GIR, proximity to the hole, scrambling %, strokes gained putting, etc? If not, I highly suggest doing so, that will quickly identify where your strengths and weaknesses are, I would bet a lot of money that it will take more than you learning how to hit a consistent draw to become a scratch golfer especially since you shoot in the mid 80s - 100+ range right now.

10 hours ago, Hevdar Destroyer of Turf said:

And as far as the fade goes... launch monitors confirmed the reason most people who fade what to draw. When you fade the ball, you can easily  swing 120 and send the ball only 250- 270. 

And when you draw the ball the same exact thing can happen, especially if there isn't enough spin and the ball dives out of the sky.

10 hours ago, Hevdar Destroyer of Turf said:

Its possible if I just hit a fade only I could lower my score, because when i hit fades I typically hit fairways these days, if 250 tee shot or over 300, I'm typically  on the short grass. But some holes just aren't very fade friendly just like some holes aren't draw friendly. The thing is the fade is a very reliable shot, you can definitely find fairway with it. But it seems to me that the margin of error on spin is less with a draw. From looking at my numbers versus YouTuber pros this seems to be consistent. A draw bias player may tend to spin the ball 500 rpm more on a bad strike where a fade bias player may spin it an extra 1000.

If you are that concerned with spin rates there are a number of significantly easier ways to reduce spin than completely changing your primary stock shot shape/pattern. Different shafts, different heads, even a lower spin golf ball can all contribute to help lower the spin on bad strikes. Changing the stock shot shape for most people takes a long time, with thousands of proper practice reps necessary. I don't mean this as an insult, but for someone at your current skill level, there are likely a number of other holes in your game besides your driving especially since you said you typically hit fairways with the fade and seem to have more than enough distance for most average courses.

10 hours ago, Hevdar Destroyer of Turf said:

So in general I think draw players have a slightly better idea of how far the ball will actually travel but fade players usually get a better lie but have to deal with a more variable amount of distance. 

 This is simply not true and if you are going to make a claim like that please back it up with facts. Dustin Johnson fades the ball almost every single shot and even if right now you could hit a draw on 100% of your shots, I guarantee he would have better distance control than you. It's simply not true to say that one shot shape is harder to control the distance on than another, there are way too many variables that go into that. 

I strongly urge you to reconsider this notion that learning to hit a consistent draw will fix all of your problems, send the ball 20 yds further, and make you become a scratch golfer. It sounds like you are fairly consistent off the tee with a fade, I would stick with that, track your stats so you can identify your weaknesses, then develop a solid practice plan/routine and work at those weaknesses until they are no longer weaknesses. 

[iacas 10,101]

@Hevdar Destroyer of Turf you seem to have a lot of misconceptions.