Posting Solo Scores to Handicap (In 2021)

[DaveP043]

On 2/25/2021 at 6:13 PM, JuliWooli said:

In mainland Europe we have an EDS round (Extra Day Score). We have to pay a small fee to the club for registering these scores and we must play with at least another player. Apart from this our handicap can only be changed in tournaments. I suppose this would be our solo rounds but they must be announced to the club in advance.

Just to clarify, Europe has for a long time used primarily competition scores for handicaps.  They've allowed some "casual" scores to be entered in the handicap system (EDS scores mentioned above), but the player must register those before playing, and must play with and have the score attested by another player.  They've never allowed scores played alone to be used in handicapping.  I believe the change in 2016, eliminating the posting of solo scores in the USGA areas, was a first step towards joining the rest of the world in the WHS.

[mcanadiens]

I actually stopped scoring all together during the second half of last year, but think I'll give it another run this season.

Often I find myself playing portions of a round with different people. My normal guys like playing nine holes and its almost always the front. Often I'll join someone else at some point on the back nine. So if the score is otherwise legitimate, not posting it because I played holes 10-12 solo seems a bit silly. Now if it is more like 10-16 alone, I'd probably just plug in the front nine.

 

 

 

[Sandy Lie]

15 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Just to clarify, Europe has for a long time used primarily competition scores for handicaps.  They've allowed some "casual" scores to be entered in the handicap system (EDS scores mentioned above), but the player must register those before playing, and must play with and have the score attested by another player.  They've never allowed scores played alone to be used in handicapping.  I believe the change in 2016, eliminating the posting of solo scores in the USGA areas, was a first step towards joining the rest of the world in the WHS.

And that’s very possible.  I’m past caring about who posts what scores anymore.  Other than the occasional rules infractions we see with Professionals, there’s not a round that goes by where rule infractions take place every hole with friends or strangers every day. The USGA Rules of golf allow us to call penalties on ourselves but don’t allow posting solo rounds.  So how do legitimate scores get posted when breaking simple rules such as the gimme 2 inch to 2 foot pickup on the green, not playing the ball down, improving ones lie and on and on.  The scores posted by most everyone may be a bit higher than we give ourselves credit for. The desire to shoot a low round is sometimes gained with infractions.  Let’s not kid ourselves, the casual rounds, Men’s or Women’s Golf Associations and the players belonging break or fudge the rules.  
Tournament play is the measure of one’s capabilities.  Playing a Tournament away from your course can definitely result in a higher score than a players handicap averages. It definitely happened to me last week.

So if a player posts a solo round there’s not much you can do other than to educate that person that it’s not allowed and the rest is up to them.

 

[dennyjones]

1 hour ago, Sandy Lie said:

And that’s very possible.  I’m past caring about who posts what scores anymore.  Other than the occasional rules infractions we see with Professionals, there’s not a round that goes by where rule infractions take place every hole with friends or strangers every day. The USGA Rules of golf allow us to call penalties on ourselves but don’t allow posting solo rounds.  So how do legitimate scores get posted when breaking simple rules such as the gimme 2 inch to 2 foot pickup on the green, not playing the ball down, improving ones lie and on and on.  The scores posted by most everyone may be a bit higher than we give ourselves credit for. The desire to shoot a low round is sometimes gained with infractions.  Let’s not kid ourselves, the casual rounds, Men’s or Women’s Golf Associations and the players belonging break or fudge the rules.  
Tournament play is the measure of one’s capabilities.  Playing a Tournament away from your course can definitely result in a higher score than a players handicap averages. It definitely happened to me last week.

So if a player posts a solo round there’s not much you can do other than to educate that person that it’s not allowed and the rest is up to them.

 

I'd venture to say that the majority of golfers don't post a real handicap.   It's common to see the violations you stated because many players will dictate their own variation of the rules before playing.    That's not real golf but a variation that a lot of people play realizing it's not real golf.  People that play in tournaments are usually very careful with the rules. 

[Lugowskins]

On 2/25/2021 at 3:58 PM, dennyjones said:

Since you're the only one that sees your scores what difference does it make if you include all of your scores.    If you play by yourself you can declare it in TheGrint and it won't be included in your handicap.   Nobody else will see your scores if you don't want them to and with all of your scores included, you'll get a real representation of your true ability.    

I understand your thought process of "I don't play tournaments" but since TheGrint is so good with stats, don't you want them to be accurate?  Throwing out your "outliers" only inflates your handicap to make you look better and since you're the only one that see those stats... 

 

I feel like there is a disconnect here I don't throw out any "outlier" rounds I enter all rounds and I was saying the handicap system throws them out. My best rounds for me are 5-6 shots below my average while the terrible rounds can be 10+ shots above the average. I could mark them as practice rounds in the Grint and not have them go towards the handicap but why? If I took all solo rounds out that would cut the rounds going towards my handicap by like 60% since I'm not using it for anything other than motivation why would I not want as much info as possible going towards it? 

[iacas]

7 hours ago, Sandy Lie said:

Other than the occasional rules infractions we see with Professionals, there’s not a round that goes by where rule infractions take place every hole with friends or strangers every day.

Could you un-muddy that sentence?

Almost every round I play is under the Rules of Golf (within the requirements to post a legitimate score).

7 hours ago, Sandy Lie said:

So how do legitimate scores get posted when breaking simple rules such as the gimme 2 inch to 2 foot pickup on the green

That's "legal" for handicapping. I'll scoop an occasional one-foot putt… and record my "most likely" score. Perfectly legal.

5 hours ago, Lugowskins said:

I could mark them as practice rounds in the Grint and not have them go towards the handicap but why?

Because what you're doing now is in breach of the rules of handicapping?

5 hours ago, Lugowskins said:

If I took all solo rounds out that would cut the rounds going towards my handicap by like 60% since I'm not using it for anything other than motivation why would I not want as much info as possible going towards it? 

Look, I still don't really care, because I'm not playing against you for anything at all, but… you're breaking the Rules. You're not supposed to post your solo rounds to your handicap. You can get all of this "information" AND achieve a valid handicap. You just choose not to. You rationalize it with "I'm not playing in tournaments." That's fine, and again I don't care at all, but accept that's what you're doing.

[StuM]

Question, I thought GHIN was the official HC.  I did check The Grint and they promote a "Compliant Handicap" so I interpret that to mean they want to follow the rules and use the official calculations but my question is this: Is The Grint an "Official HC" or are the only "Official HCs" from GHIN? 

Game Golf calculates a handicap, but I never considered it an "Official HC" yet it can be used to monitor personal progress.

Is a solution to the "Solo Round" issue to have one system where you enter all of your rounds (i.e. Game Golf), including solo, but only post compliant rounds to GHIN for the "Official" HC?  If The Grint is not an official HC than is there an issue with posting solo rounds to The Grint?

[iacas]

I believe the Grint is just a series of eClubs, and is fully authorized by the USGA.

[Lugowskins]

15 hours ago, iacas said:

Could you un-muddy that sentence?

Almost every round I play is under the Rules of Golf (within the requirements to post a legitimate score).

That's "legal" for handicapping. I'll scoop an occasional one-foot putt… and record my "most likely" score. Perfectly legal.

Because what you're doing now is in breach of the rules of handicapping?

Look, I still don't really care, because I'm not playing against you for anything at all, but… you're breaking the Rules. You're not supposed to post your solo rounds to your handicap. You can get all of this "information" AND achieve a valid handicap. You just choose not to. You rationalize it with "I'm not playing in tournaments." That's fine, and again I don't care at all, but accept that's what you're doing.

Have I ever said anything different? I said I don't care about the rule not that I wasn't breaking it or that I thought it was a dumb rule. 

[DaveP043]

15 hours ago, StuM said:

 Is The Grint an "Official HC" or are the only "Official HCs" from GHIN? 

As I understand it, the Grint offers official USGA Handicap Index services, by enrolling each golfer in an internet-based golf club in their geographic area.  The Grint offers additional services like shot tracking, and may offer the option to record solo scores without utilizing them in the official handicap calculation.  

However, GHIN is not (or at least WAS not) the only calculational service for handicaps.  Each state or regional golf association is free to choose to use GHIN, or to use a different calculation service, or to develop their own service.  At one time, I knew of several states that had gone this route, but a quick look tells me that just about all have now chosen to use GHIN.

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

Have I ever said anything different? I said I don't care about the rule not that I wasn't breaking it or that I thought it was a dumb rule. 

Sure, but why? Why break the rule when not doing so costs you nothing?

@DaveP043 the non-GHIN options were curtailed quite a bit in 2020. There’s still more than GHIN but not many. A local club here used to use USGolf or something but had to switch to GHIN last year.

[Lugowskins]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

Sure, but why? Why break the rule when not doing so costs you nothing?

@DaveP043 the non-GHIN options were curtailed quite a bit in 2020. There’s still more than GHIN but not many. A local club here used to use USGolf or something but had to switch to GHIN last year.

Because as I have said multiple times now if I did not enter solo rounds I would have like 8 rounds to actually enter towards my handicap for the entire year as opposed to 25+. Why not break a rule that costs me nothing but gains me something (a more accurate handicap)? Some people want to roll back the ball to where it was 30 years ago I'm rolling back the handicap rules to where they were 5 years ago lol. That's called a "joke".

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

Because as I have said multiple times now if I did not enter solo rounds I would have like 8 rounds to actually enter towards my handicap for the entire year as opposed to 25+.

And as I've said, enter them somewhere else other than an official handicap.

15 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

Why not break a rule that costs me nothing but gains me something (a more accurate handicap)?

It's not more accurate. It's less accurate, because handicapping is established under certain rules, and you're breaching those Rules. Is the final score of an NBA game if they count all baskets as 4 points more accurate than if they have 1, 2, and 3-point shots? No. Is the results of a tennis match "more accurate" when players randomly get to count the doubles court width as in bounds? No.

Or sticking to golf, is the resulting score more accurate when a player decides he's going to move his ball two feet to the right before every shot? Of course not.

I don't care (beyond making a few comments here), but you're rationalizing/justifying this.

15 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

Some people want to roll back the ball to where it was 30 years ago I'm rolling back the handicap rules to where they were 5 years ago lol. That's called a "joke".

Hardy har. Five years ago this was still illegal. The change took effect January 1, 2016. 🙂 I can joke too.

[dennyjones]

In TheGrint there is a place to check that selects the round as practice.   You can still get "all" of your data by selection to include all of your rounds vs. handicap rounds.   

Trust me, I get where you are coming from but don't have an argument that will back your stance.    

[ncates00]

3 hours ago, Lugowskins said:

Because as I have said multiple times now if I did not enter solo rounds I would have like 8 rounds to actually enter towards my handicap for the entire year as opposed to 25+. Why not break a rule that costs me nothing but gains me something (a more accurate handicap)? Some people want to roll back the ball to where it was 30 years ago I'm rolling back the handicap rules to where they were 5 years ago lol. That's called a "joke".

Why do you care what your handicap is any way? I always do gross even if that means I get destroyed. I’ve never cared about net scores. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by ncates00

[Lugowskins]

1 hour ago, ncates00 said:

Why do you care what your handicap is any way? I always do gross even if that means I get destroyed. I’ve never cared about net scores. 

I never use my handicap in any form other than a barometer of where my game is at in combination with all the other stats I keep. I never play in anything where MY handicap is used. My league keeps a "handicap" (that's far from a legit) and they do net scores simply because so many people in the league are terrible and its just for fun so they're trying to keep it competitive but when I am playing with my friend group its always gross and we're generally playing anything other than stroke play. 

Favorite game is one I actually "invented" I call it Fu*k You. Alternate shot match play (or just match play if it's a two-some but alt shot is more fun) where you get 3 mulligans and 3 call backs per side. So if you hit a bad shot obviously you can use a mulligan but if your opponent hits a good shot you can go "fu*k you, hit it again" and they have to try to duplicate the shot. Both cannot happen from the same spot though, there's a max of 2 shots per spot if you use a mulligan your opponent cant recall the mulligan and if they recall your first shot you cant mulligan your second. Super fun and a lot of strategy involved. 

[ncates00]

19 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

barometer of where my game is at in combination with all the other stats I keep.

You can do this even better with Game Golf or Arccos. Handicap doesn't tell much.

 

20 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

My league keeps a "handicap" (that's far from a legit) and they do net scores simply because so many people in the league are terrible and its just for fun so they're trying to keep it competitive

Gotcha. Common.

 

21 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

Favorite game is one I actually "invented"

LOL nice

[jlbos83]

4 hours ago, dennyjones said:

In TheGrint there is a place to check that selects the round as practice.   You can still get "all" of your data by selection to include all of your rounds vs. handicap rounds.   

Trust me, I get where you are coming from but don't have an argument that will back your stance.    

I need to find that check box, though solo rounds have been rare lately, with so many more people out there!  I have been guilty of posting solo rounds, but I am convinced to stop.  I followed the rules either way (during play, I understand that posting a solo round was not following the rules), so my HC was probably changed very little.  But, it should still be done right.  I need to refresh on how many holes can be solo, and still be counted, for instance when I'm paired with someone who stops after nine, and then I join another group that I catch a couple holes later.