What Constitutes Slow Play?

[Sandy Lie]

33 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

So you and the kid got to be greenside spectators for 3ish minutes on every green after the 5th...

I look at my putts from multiple angles but I do it while others are lining up their putts.

I played a round yesterday and one member of the foursome was a bit slow because of his routine.  We started falling behind.  The slo-poke, on every shot, would look up at the pin, look down, look back up at the pin, look down, rinse and repeat.

Finally Ron, getting flustered at the slow play, spoke to him point-blank.  "You know, the pin isn't moving anywhere when you look down!"

It was Course #4, it started on the 1st hole. After we were done 4 hours and 50min later. I estimated he personally added about 40 minutes on his own due to his walkabouts on the green.  Personally as I approach a green I start to survey my putt, haven’t even put the bag down yet. I can be 10 yards or so away and start my process.  I rarely look from the other side of the pin. Ready golf my friends, let’s move!  LOL!  How’s the summer going in Washington?

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, Sandy Lie said:

It was Course #4, it started on the 1st hole. After we were done 4 hours and 50min later. I estimated he personally added about 40 minutes on his own due to his walkabouts on the green.  Personally as I approach a green I start to survey my putt, haven’t even put the bag down yet. I can be 10 yards or so away and start my process.  I rarely look from the other side of the pin. Ready golf my friends, let’s move!  LOL!  How’s the summer going in Washington?

Ditto on walking up to the green reading putts.  I feel you can get a better idea of the general layout of the green at that distance than standing right on it!

Something a lot of golfers don't do... after missing your 30 footer don't turn away in disgust.  Watch the ball as it goes by the cup, it will give you a fairly good read for subtle breaks on the comeback putt.  And otherwise speeds up reading the putt.

Well, we had the heat wave out here end of June... brutal.  Now we've got a drought and wildfires on our hands.  

 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I feel you can get a better idea of the general layout of the green at that distance than standing right on it!

It helps, but no: AimPoint.

[Billy Z]

On 7/16/2021 at 9:49 AM, iacas said:

Not necessarily true at all. Put those walkers in carts and they'll be faster. Fast players are fast players, and players who walk learn to be fast because otherwise they end up walking 30% more. So they learn the "tricks" to be pretty fast. Also, they have to stay ahead of people in carts (or keep up with them in their own groups).

I'll even agree with this! 

Fast paced golfers are not fast because they are in a cart or are walking, it is basically their golfing ethics. I play Ready golf because I think that is the most appropriate, not just for me, but for everybody else on the course.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Billy Z said:

I'll even agree with this! 

Fast paced golfers are not fast because they are in a cart or are walking, it is basically their golfing ethics. I play Ready golf because I think that is the most appropriate, not just for me, but for everybody else on the course.

Yes. Ready golf is not a skill, it’s an attitude.

[The Flush]

Today I left home at 3:30 drove 20 minutes each way to the course, paid, putted for a few minutes while someone else finished the first hole (par 3), played 9 holes with a little bit of waiting on the 2nd and 8th holes and made it home by 6:00.  That was a decent pace of play day. And even then I worried that the single bend us was going to catch us and think we were playing too slow. I think he skipped the last 2 holes because I never saw him tee off on #8 while we teed off on #9.

[sjduffers]

I had a new one today.

A group of 4 guys is teeing off before our group (we had only 3 today), but one of their members is late to the course so they take it slow, chit-chatting on the box and what not. Finally, the missing guy struts in, not walking any faster, driving his remote controlled push cart, and they get going: 3 and 4 balls per player. From the blue tees. I didn't think that all (or even most) of them had he skills to play those tees. It's going to be a long day, I said to the rest of my group. We had no idea, how long!

We can see already a big gap ahead of them, and there must have been a gap in the tee sheet. So after waiting what seemed like half an eternity to hit our approches, we proceed, hit our chips and putts as needed, and only 3 of the guys ahead have yet teed off, and at least one is hitting mulligans... They had played the first hole in well over 20 minutes. We finish and walk past them towards the white tees where we will be hitting next. They totally ignore us, won't invite us through and that's when one of my partners says out loud (to be heard by them): "I don't have six hours for this, so let's go past them to the third tee." 

We never hit from those white tees and instead walked around the slowpokes, under the tunnel below the freeway, back up on the other side and played the third hole, a par 5. We finished the par 500+ yards hole (3 shots + chips + putts as needed for 3 people), walked off to the 4th tee and they were STILL not on the third tee. Well, this seemed like the right decision, we congratulate ourselves.

And the rest of the round proceeds normally and at a great pace: we have about 3 holes open in front, and on #11 catch up with the previous group, a foursome. No big deal, we can chip and putt on the previous green for a while as the slow group is now about 3 holes behind. We keep going like that until the end and by the time we walk off #18, the snails are making it to the tee of #14. That's a whole 5 holes behind, mind you, and that's with us having plenty of time to practice our short game as we move along. We were done in just over 3 hours and 20 minutes, so these guys were on pace for 5 to 5 1/2 hours with nobody in front of them, not playing in a tournament. This is an easy course, flat, open and I walked it once with nobody in front in under 2 hours.

I just couldn't believe it. That slower than the definition of slow. Horrible.

 

[Double Mocha Man]

What constitutes slow play for me is when I'm on a hot course and not playing so well, and the group in front will never be invited to play speed golf in the Olympics.  My mind begins to wander to a beach, a cold gin & tonic and my shady side patio.

[RFKFREAK]

On 7/16/2021 at 6:02 PM, Sandy Lie said:

Agree 100% fast players are always fast.  Here’s a funny add on….played #4 the other day, just a threesome. Myself, a young kid from Texas that was here playing in a Junior event and another Member.  We were all walkers.  On the very 1st hole it was evident that we would be slow!  The kid played the Green, we played White tees. I’ll only describe the first hole and just multiple this by 18.  I was on in two, the kid was just off in two as was the other player. I putted, got it close and finished. The kid was next and he did the same.  Player 3. Here is what he did for all 18 holes. First he looked at his line from behind the ball. Then he walked counterclockwise to a midpoint away from the pin and squatted to look at the green surface. Then he walked to the far side of the pin, squatted again and looked back towards his ball to look at the line a 3rd time. Then he walked half way back and squatted a 4th time to look at the surface again. I watched this for a few holes, then on the 5th hole the kid looked at me and raised his eyebrows, I chuckled.  After a few more holes the kid  couldn’t wait any longer and just putted when he was ready, I did the same.  This guy never varied from his approach to his putting, I’ll give him that, but talk about slow play!  I may look at a tricky putt now and then, but this was ridiculous! IMO.

You know some people pay good money to be spectators at events like these. 😂.

I have a friend who thinks I'm a slow player because I always get to the course after him, take two practice swings as part of my preshot routine, and use Aimpoint when putting what's m whereas he just hits and takes a look at his putt for a second or two before putting.  I don't think I'm a slow player but maybe i am 🤷‍♀️.

That said, generally speaking, i don't have a family or anything i have a specific time that i have to get back for so a 4-4 5 hour round doesn't bother me as long as we're not stop, go, stop, go, stop, go.  If it feels like we're in rhythm then i generally won't be bothered bc the round won't feel like it takes a while.  I guess playing at public courses generally on weekends when you know it's going to be filled with ppl just makes me expect that a round won't be less than 4 hours.

[gjunkie57]

Slow play is not keeping up with the group in front, unless its a group of really fast players.  
The question is how to remedy it.  I play with guys who shoot high 70’s low 80’s whose pre-shot routines are intermidable.  In addition they are elderly and just move slow.  So as the young-un in the group I rush, especially on the green.  They play from the correct tees, it just takes them forever to go thru their routine.  
Yesterday I played as a single.  Arrived at the course at 3 and was told to be off before 5 due to league play. I finished in 92 mins and played thru two other groups.  My goal is to not 3 putt and no 7’s on the card.  Shot 85. High scores does not automatically mean slow play.  

[mohearn]

15 minutes ago, gjunkie57 said:

I play with guys who shoot high 70’s low 80’s whose pre-shot routines are intermidable.  In addition they are elderly and just move slow. 

Might be slow, but I'm sorta liking these guys...

[Darkfrog]

One of the things Bill Yates discusses in his book about pace of play, Out of Time, is the impact of course setup.

Here is an example from a round I played July 18th.

The tee box is aiming directly into the trees on the right (yellow box is the green, red arrow is approximate alignment of tee markers). If a player aligns themselves where the markers are pointing, most likely they will be spending a bunch of time looking for lost balls. This is also a 190-210 yard par-3, so many amateur players are hitting hybrids/fairway woods, with larger dispersion pattern. I see this all the time at my home course, it is maddening.

[Sandy Divot]

9 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

One of the things Bill Yates discusses in his book about pace of play, Out of Time, is the impact of course setup.

Here is an example from a round I played July 18th.

The tee box is aiming directly into the trees on the right (yellow box is the green, red arrow is approximate alignment of tee markers). If a player aligns themselves where the markers are pointing, most likely they will be spending a bunch of time looking for lost balls. This is also a 190-210 yard par-3, so many amateur players are hitting hybrids/fairway woods, with larger dispersion pattern. I see this all the time at my home course, it is maddening.

I am retired, but have a turf degree. The course I used to belong to used to have guys that did not play golf doing the set up. I used to play 9 by myself a lot, and was usually the first off. When I would see tee markers set like that, I’d move them.

[gjunkie57]

On 7/27/2021 at 9:17 PM, mohearn said:

Might be slow, but I'm sorta liking these guys...

They are a fun group of guys.  The stories they tell are epic.  

[phan52]

We used to require 4:15 and two years ago moved to 4:05. Our course can be a difficult walk with some significant elevation changes but we found that 4:05 was fine and that few foursomes finished over that. This year we instituted a change for weekends where, if you sign up to play before 8:00 AM, the group has to finish in 3:45. It turns out that you don't have to necessarily rush to finish in that time. Just last week we had a nice pace that I felt wasn't rushed and I figured that maybe we were close to the designated time but we finished in 3:35. 

I have found over the years that slow play isn't a result of poor play or high scores, it is a result of being ready to play. Personally, I have a routine taking a practice swing and I may appear deliberate, but I am always ready to play. I will have a club in my hand and ready to go when it is my turn. It drives me crazy when a player waits until someone else plays their shot to figure out the circumstances for their own shot and pick a club. 

[The Flush]

Played a new course today.  We had 3 guys shoot in the 90s and 1 shot an 80 and we finished in less than 3.5 hours because we played ready golf.  You can play bad golf quickly.  We had a 2 some in front of us that we never saw after the first hole and had a 2 some behind us that rarely was close to us after the first few holes.

[Double Mocha Man]

32 minutes ago, The Flush said:

Played a new course today.  We had 3 guys shoot in the 90s and 1 shot an 80 and we finished in less than 3.5 hours because we played ready golf.  You can play bad golf quickly.  We had a 2 some in front of us that we never saw after the first hole and had a 2 some behind us that rarely was close to us after the first few holes.

It was a new course.  You get a pass.  Next time you need to keep it around 3 hours.  😁😉

[Zippo]

The group I've been golfing with recently plays very slowly. 5 to 5 1/2 hours rounds are common. At first, I was a bit bothered by it but I see now that some of the golfers have physical handicaps that affect their speed of play. I'm willing to give them a pass and I've just decided that, if I play with the group, I should plan on it being a long round and just use the extra time to visit with my fellow players while we wait. There are definitely some of them who do not understand the concept of ready golf but it doesn't really matter as even if you golf more quickly you'll be waiting on the group ahead of you who's waiting on the group ahead of them, etc, etc. I'm enjoying the chance to play with some folk I don't know (at least, I'm enjoying meeting most of them) and as a retired geezer I've nothing else pressing to do anyway.

I've also noticed that I golf more poorly when playing with the group. Not sure if it's "performance anxiety" as I've been playing each time with people I don't know, or the pace of play breaking up my game, or just a bad day on the course. But, I don't get too perturbed about it and just enjoy being able to get out and play.