Something wrong with golfers these days... (re: equipment)

[Wannabe Paper Tiger]

I understand the OP's and mostly agree with, his points but I don't agree with the statement that there is something wrong with golfers nowadays...

As stated by others before me on this thread, there are "equipment" junkies (I am one btw) in every hobby. Some of those people emphasize knowledge over actual practice and skill. Some buy equipment over lessons even though the lessons are more useful and of course some also think buying the latest, best thing will make them better without practice or a grasp of such concepts as feel and tempo. But people do this because of the greater opportunity to do so... if you are lazy and rich or just a flat out equipment nut your ability to feed these traits are unlimited due to the glut of stuff out there year after year...

I remember last year I finally went from a 300cc driver (bought in 2000 - when i last played golf regularly) to a 425cc (the titleist 905T). My drives were the same - inconsistent... then, because I am an equipment junkie I went out to the pro shop, went on the launch monitor to try out other clubs (460ccs) and you know what the monitor said? 285 - same as my 300cc, same as 425, same as the 460s... the pro even asked "how many rounds you get in a year? like 15-20?" My answer was yes... He said given my swing (he complimented me on it) and the # of rounds I was getting to play he wasn't surprised that I was only a 16 handicap. "It takes practice and playing to get better. You don't need a new driver, it won't help you hit it any farther than you are already... I won't sell you one." But of course, I bought one later anyway (the 907D1, got a great deal! - this is a bad mantra btw...).

My main point is this: there's nothing wrong with golfers these days... people are people, lots of them buy crap they don't need because they can. Yes some of them are delusional but they are just as delusional outside of the golf course as they are on it. The saying that golf is a lot like life is true. You can tell a lot about a person from how they act on the course...

Second point is this: you see more of them because more people play golf now. golf has certainly plateaued a bit in popularity and even decreased but you see more people who have no clue about certain things because they are just more people playing than back 10 years ago, that combined with the fact that a lot of the newcomers have no background in golf, so many don't know or even value certain things about golf...

Oh btw, I am playing much better now due to practice, par 3 courses and short nine hole courses. Now my putting sucks (i usually shoot 4-6 over with 1 or two bogeys and a huge number that includes a 3 putt - gross...), such is golf...

[larlev]

Well said....I think you speak for a majority of golfers

I can't speak for everyone, but I can tell you why I am so well researched on equipment.

[Sherpat]

Here's something that may go a ways towards explaining why many people are equipment obsessed - in ANY field - even if the equipment they obsess about may not be ultimately better than garage sale bargains:

In a combined study by scientists at Stanford and Cal Tech, it was found that people who pay more for the same object experience greater levels of pleasure than people who pay less for the same object.

Not percieved pleasure. ACTUAL pleasure.

Reader's Digest version: They measured brain activity levels of people drinking two glasses of wine. The first glass they were told came from a 5 dollar bottle. The second glass held wine they were informed was poured from a 45 dollar bottle.

In actuality, both wines were from the same bottle.

When people drank the wine that they thought cost more, more neurons in their brain's pleasure centers fired off.

In other words, people felt more physical pleasure when they thought they were recieving a more expensive product, even if there was no difference at all materially. It wasn't an illusion or willfull self deception. They were literally happier.

This, as the article says in so many words, is a marketer's wet dream come true.

On the other side, and the point that's relative to this discussion, is the fact that golfers are just as affected by this phenomenom as everyone else. Buying equipment we THINK is better gives us more pleasure, whether or not it IS better equipment (are Pings really "better" than TM's, or Mizunos than Calloway?) Especially if we pay more to get it. And, again for golfers as for others, pleasure is a more compelling pursuit than results.

For myself, I'm no different when I look at my buying history objectively. I mean, I started to obsess about Wishon clubs after reading one of Tom Wishon's books two years ago. So I saved and saved and finally got up enough to get a thorough fitting and a set of custom crafted shafts and heads.

Did it make me a better player? Well...yes, a bit. But probably because I'd never had fitted clubs before. That really does make a difference. Would I have seen the same improvement if I'd gone with fitted G10's or MX-25's? I bet I would have. But...when I go downstairs and look at those Wishons with their mean looking black Matrix shafts and funky red/black Winn grips and think about what it took to get them, I always smile. Completely extant of any merits they may or may not have related to my game, they make me smile.

And I bet you do the same with your clubs, especially if you ever saved up and finally got the set you'd been obsessing over for months. Even if your handicap didn't budge an inch afterwards.

THAT'S why people are equipment nuts, and always will be. At least for - actually especially for - those of us who just play for fun.

IMO, of course

[Norm66]

Great post Sherpat.

The only thing I would add is that some folks take pleasure in paying less for a perceived higher-cost item. Essentially some people just like to find great deals whatever their hobby.

[In-com-plete]

Years ago as friends or people I'd just end up getting paired with would talk about how I "should play this ball" or "should get this shaft" or "should buy this club". I'd just laugh it off and tell them I lose too many balls and aren't good enough to play that Titliest Professional or buy that Great Big Bertha driver. Then I'd beat them. Not that I was this great golfer or anything. I just didn't think I was good enough to spend major jack for equipment. Now I'm a firm believer that equipment does matter..... to an extent.

I started playing with my grandfathers old MacGregor Golden Bear Irons, Austad woods, and any ball I could find. Often times I played with range balls. But I could hit that wedge 100 yards, the 7I 125 yards, and the 5I 155 yards. Played with that set for a year or two and when I retired that set I was pretty much a bogey golfer. Maybe a little worse.

Then I bought a set of King Snake irons. 130 for the wedge, 155 for the 7I, and about 180 for my 5I. Started playing better balls (which I got out of the pond between 13 & 14 on my home course). But that summer, I consistently shot 85 and rarely touched 90. Sure some of it had to do with me just getting better. But alot of it had to do with equipment.

I hit a wall a few/four years later and figured it was time to upgrade the irons. Too bad that didn't help. Still averaged about an 82-83. I actually had bought the real Cobra irons but didn't like them as much as the knock offs. Then, a few years ago, after I didn't hardly play for 3 years, I was back to a bogey golfer. Rarely touched 87 and topped 100 quite a few times.

Then, a year and a half ago I bought these 3100 I/H irons and instantly I was better. They have twice the sweet spot so all those miss hits rarely come into play anymore. And the difference in distance is crazy. 150-155 for the wedge. 175 for the 7I. 195 for the 5I.

All that being said, I firmly believe the clubs I'm playing now allow me to shoot 1 or 3 strokes lower than if I was playing with some old beat up clubs. But I'm not one of those equipment fanatics that has to have the latest and greatest. I have no idea what the difference in shafts do. What "launch angle" I have. What my ball is spinning at or whatever. Hell, a good friend of mine that I play with alot is always asking me what he's doing wrong. I don't freakin' know. All I know is how to hit my clubs with my baseball type swing. If I start fading or slicing the ball I need to roll my wrists more or finish lower. If I start pushing everything I'm just opening up too early. That's how I fix my problems.

The way I see it, to each his own.

[OldDog66]

None

[Sherpat]

Great post Sherpat.

Thanks, Norm!

[GreekGodX]

When you first start off I think its a good idea to get clubs that are consistent and in great shape. This way you don't have to question the equipment until you have a sound swing. After you get experienced its all about the players prefrence. Technology can only help you so much. It comes down to the mental game and the execution of shots. We need to remember that golf is a bussiness to the big companies. Essestially all clubs are made the same without much change year to year. But we all at time to time get caught up in the hype or "trying to keep up with the Jones'." With that just pick a set and stick with it until you absolutely need a change.

[nykfan4life]

to each his own.

[nykfan4life]

Thanks, Norm!

aren't we getting the full use of this thread? ;)

[mtrevors]

I hear ya. Experts in the industry say that the new 460cc drivers will get you an additional 30 yards TOTAL (including roll) over the old persimmon woods of yesteryear. The biggest advantage with todays clubs is consistency (ie you can mishit your driver and not be penalized as severely as with the persimmon woods). I guess they figured out if you can keep people in the fairway you can play faster and curse less

[JeffJ]

So I am getting back into golf after a few years off and then picking them up every couple months the last few years. I now live two minutes from the course and can get to the range often. I am trying to justify replacing my ten year old Pings with the new G10's. In my opinion I need to get refit and if I am going to go do that I might as well upgrade...it cant hurt. Can it?

[SteelDriver]

I've been meaning to post this for some time and I'm curious what y'all think.

One other thing - for those of you starting out, I would actually recommend practicing feel shots with hard Top Flites and stuff like that - people wonder how I hit such buttery, handsy flop shots with a fast swing speed. the answer: i learned to do it with xl2000s, so imagine how i can do it with pro V1s.

Wow, thats the 2nd biggest post of BS I have ever read.

Okay buddy, you're the greatest....heres a pat on the back for you because you're good enough to play with you-dont-know-what clubs from the 1970s. And did I mention how great it is that you started with "wooden Spalding drivers and irons from Building 19"? I mean, how great is that!?? Im sure a majority of the guys on tour would call you a dumbass. Equipment is very important and every golfer should take it seriously. I know they would not agree with you based on the size of their paychecks they get from sponsors who rake in BILLIONS selling their game enhancing products to the masses......key phrase, "game enhanceing"...meaning, they arent very good and cant shape shots just yet, just looking to improve! Or maybe you are just better and smarter than the millions of players around the world who consistantly upgrade their equipment. There is a right or wrong to things like shafts, so Im glad to hear higher handicap players discussing things like that. If you had half a brain you would realize that is a great sign for the future of the game we all love so much. Its a healthy sign. Would you rather they begin with the ghetto-gear hacking around until they get discouraged and dont want to continue playing? I hope not. Not everyone has the eye of the tiger attitude you seem to have had in the beginning. Honestly, I have never seen a bigger boasting session. A cry for attention if I have ever seen one. Starting a sentance with "I'm not trying to sound arrogant but..." is the same as starting one with "no offense but...". Something offensive always follows. So, no offense but i'd have an easier time believing R7 425's handicap is more close to the truth than yours. You're whats wrong with golf. Forget about everyone else and worry about you..

[Doctorfro]

I'm playing the same irons I bought 14 years ago. It was two years ago that I said goodbye to my original BB 1-3-5. I did get a new putter this past year. "Equipmentphobes" run rampant and frankly, they could focus the time and money on a better swing. Good equipment or equipment that fits us properly can help alot, but a good swing can do more for a good golf game.

[ArjunGFX]

Wow, thats the 2nd biggest post of BS I have ever read.

Hey I'm just trying to help golfers. I agree that equipment, feel for brands etc is important. It goes both ways - someone using less hi tech equipment for confidence purposes is still benefitting from equipment. There are reasons that when I started to get serious that I chose certain brands. And I love looking at new clubs, etc etc. I made part of my living by working for a major golf equipment company, one that eeeeveryone here is familiar with, so I understand the different sides to the story.

I'm just saying that you could be an 8 handicap by the end of the year if you still took equipment into account but tipped the balance more towards lessons, mechanics, tempo and feel. If you're a 14 handicap, your launch angle probably needs work. So instead of going out and getting fitted for what the angle is now, get some lessons, work on your swing, and theeeen get fitted. This is how better players do it. I'm just giving you a perspective from someone who's played a lot competitively. I am trying to help you out. As for my handicap, you're right, I have been lying. Guess I should have updated my profile. MASSACHUSETTS GOLF ASSOCIATION USGA HANDICAP INDEX: 3.7 EFFECTIVE DATE: 03/05/2008

[SteelDriver]

Hey I'm just trying to help golfers. I agree that equipment, feel for brands etc is important. It goes both ways - someone using less hi tech equipment for confidence purposes is still benefitting from equipment. There are reasons that when I started to get serious that I chose certain brands. And I love looking at new clubs, etc etc. I made part of my living by working for a major golf equipment company, one that eeeeveryone here is familiar with, so I understand the different sides to the story.

See what I mean? you have no idea what you're talking about.

Im a 14 so my launch angle probably needs work?? Really? So everyone who is a 14 needs to work on launch angle.... Got it! What do I work on when I become a 12? Just want to be on top of it so im ahead when I get there. Who said I haven't taken as many as 35 lessons already? K, buddy. Thanks for trying to help everyone with such general statements. It helps a lot! Worry about you.

[cmarkmyers]

This game is hard enough for beginners. Telling them to use old equipment and bad balls will do nothing to grow the game. Sure, very few may find benefits in the long run, but many won't. Even worse, many would just quit, especially beginners that started later in life and don't have the hand/eye coordination or the time required to learn while using unforgiving equipment.

That said, obsessing over equipment can be a bad thing. Most players won't benefit by upgrading their 2006 game improvement irons with newer models, and today's drivers are not so much better than last year's that you need to drop another $400. Like others have said spend that money on lessons and practice.

But at the same time don't begrudge people that like to play around and tinker with their equipment, no matter what their handicap. If they like getting new equipment because it makes them happy then be happy for them. If they go on and on about how their game has improved, how their launch angle is better, etc., then let them and just take what they say with a grain of salt. Maybe being more knowledgeable about these things will help them in the long run.

Still, everyone should have decent equipment, regardless of handicap. I see people at the driving range where I work part time using old (and sometimes damaged) sticks and not understanding why they are struggling. A girl was there the other day trying to use a stiff shafted 3-iron blade, would anyone tell her to stick with that because she will be better off in the long run? I don't think so. Using quality equipment that is properly and professionally fit – to your size and swing – benefits ALL golfers.

[dave39]

See what I mean? you have no idea what you're talking about.

Steel, I think you need to take a breather man.

The whole point of the initial thread is to make people realize that it's not the clubs making the difference between good and bad golfers. Natural talent, lessons, a love for the game, and then equipment comes last. If people want to blow thousands of dollars on their "custom fit" / launch monitor fitted equipment than that is fine. That's their choice... but people HAVE become so wrapped up in equipment that going to the golf course is like going to the mall for them and they really don't think about their game.. just the clubs in their bag and what will make them look good. If it makes a person feel good inside then all the power to them, good job.. you have a $400 driver that you slice into the woods every second drive. That really doesn't matter as long as you can have fun while doing it. But like I said, the thread starter is trying to show how the game is more about the equipment these days for many people and it is a shame because it should be more about just having fun and learning, rather than relying on equipment to solve your problems. Bad golfer with old equipment might slice it into the woods but bad golfer with new equipment will continue to slice it into the woods. And I really don't think he is "worried about everyone else"... he is just stating his opinion on a public forum to spark some conversation and maybe have a couple of people snap out of their club addictions and take a couple lessons. He is also not trying to brag about his handicap.. you are just a quick to judge, but don't worry.. lots of people are like that. People at my home course know how I play and come to me for advice all the time and the thread starter might be in a similar situation. He is not trying to brag is just trying to give his educated opinion that has developed from his experiences.