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ArjunGFX

Something wrong with golfers these days... (re: equipment)

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but a lot of the courses on Tour are 7200 yard courses that you can bomb away at-- thus--working the ball is not as frequent as may may wonder

I don't need to wonder. I see my fair share of live PGA Tour golf each year. The guys work the ball left and right, too, contrary (AGAIN) to your earlier statements.

Please do not respond to my posts, r7. I'm tired of correcting you and pointing out the falsities of your many beliefs. And given your shallow understanding of the game, I still doubt that you're a legit 2.

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oh snap.... haha wow, that just made my work day a little funnier

when I was at the deutche I watched for 6 days in total amazement - high and low draws, stingers, high and low fades, just some balloons that seemed to never come down

I esp enjoyed the practice rounds, saw Tiger and Phil play some amazing shots just for fun

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Word. And none of those guys on tour adjust the screws in their club. Even if they did, that helps them off the tee, but when it's time to hit a high draw around a tree to a back left pin position.... an R7 full of screws isn't gonna help.

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on tour I think they do mess around with their r7 combinations, they aren't limited to the stock weights and I believe they have even more combinations than the TP set. How much does this affect their play, who knows... but like many things in golf there is definately a mental aspect to it. I could see lower level tour pro's really tinkering with things but not sure how retief would set up his superquad

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on tour I think they do mess around with their r7 combinations, they aren't limited to the stock weights and I believe they have even more combinations than the TP set. How much does this affect their play, who knows... but like many things in golf there is definately a mental aspect to it. I could see lower level tour pro's really tinkering with things but not sure how retief would set up his superquad

They'll change them occasionally, from event to event, or occasionally depending on the day's conditions, but that's rare. Most - like average golfers - find the setup they like and stick with it.

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Those of you thinking that guys on tour don't need to work the ball.. come on. Those guys think about working the ball on virtually every shot. That is why you see a lot of them getting pissed even if they're in the fairway, because they might be on the wrong side. It is also why they think about where on the tee box they tee up. Tiger woods and Vijay Singh could hit a draw every time if they wanted to... there are reasons they'll choose a high fade here, and a low draw there... Guys on tour RARELY aim for the flag.

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I think the greatest thing is just watching tour pro's throw an approach past the flag and they just know the ball will suck back

its unreal to see how much confidence they have with their shotmaking ability

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There are more players than just KJ Choi... Els was using the FT-i... but, generally you are correct. Plenty of 460's that are workable on tour, and most will use a tour issue model with lower MOI, etc.

yes, but as you pointed out in your last sentance, the FTI model that Els uses is the tour version with lower moi, lower launch, and higher workability.

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It's not just pros that work the ball. I think every good golfer who understands course management works the ball. Left, right, high, low, etc. Now, whether or not they can actually shape a shot is a different story.

For example, when I'm at Hudson Hills, I like to be on the right side of the fairway on many par fours. This is because it gives me the best angles and shortest distance to the flag. On two par fives, the fairway runs right to left, so I like to be on the right, too.

I wished I was good enough to shape shots whenever I wanted. I'm not. However, I can work the ball to certain areas that put me in the best scoring position. I'm sure that better players and players at my level would agree. This is what makes the pros so much fun to watch.

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I don't need to wonder. I see my fair share of live PGA Tour golf each year. The guys work the ball left and right, too, contrary (AGAIN) to your earlier statements.

Wonder what makes you say that :)

The couple of guys I know who play or played on TOUR work the ball pretty regularly. When I've gone to events like the Memorial, I see a lot of players moving the ball based on hole placement, or tee shot shape. Now, if you've never seen a very high level swing from behind to watch the curvature, unless there is a good reason for a big swing, their draws and fades don't curve all that much. Most mid to high handicappers would call the shots straight, but they aren't- 5-10 yards of movement with a driver. Less with irons.

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After sitting here and reading through the majority of this thread, the bottom line here gentlemen is that there are many different types of golfers. Some are out there to have fun and their definition of golfing fun is to buy new equipment, to others it is the purity of the game, still others are a combination of the two, and I am sure that there are several other combinations of golfers and definitions of golfing fun as well.

The fact is people will do whatever it is that makes them feel good. I for one am interested in learning more about my golf game, what do I need to do so that should I choose to upgrade my equipment, I will get the best result for the money spent? In my opinion that's what everyone is trying to do, improve their game. I just choose to believe that nothing, not new clubs, new golf balls, new shoes, clothes, etc....will improve my game as much as quality time spent with a good instructor, time on the range and practice green, a proper warm up, and a healthy attitude about my abilities will.

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After sitting here and reading through the majority of this thread, the bottom line here gentlemen is that there are many different types of golfers. Some are out there to have fun and their definition of golfing fun is to buy new equipment, to others it is the purity of the game, still others are a combination of the two, and I am sure that there are several other combinations of golfers and definitions of golfing fun as well.

You said that very well==I couldnt agree more--theres the "grip and rip types" and the "Solid Fundamental" type and theres the in betweens--nice post

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For me it's quite important to have the right equipment so I DON'T think about it actually. By that I mean if I play with some awfully looking clubs I just can't focus on playing golf, I just keep thinking "****s sake, these clubs suck! So ugly! No way I am gonna hit the ball well.". I play my best when I just play golf without thinking about stuff. I do not really care if the gear I get is top notch or just average. Mainly I go for the equipment that I really like and that feels good.

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They tweak their equipment a lot more than one might think. Just talk to the fellas in the trailers. the pros can tell the difference in 1 wrap of tape. As far a working the ball goes, you may think they are "working" it, but for most its their natural shot. I've seen them hit shot after shot during practice rounds, and never hit one straight. Ever see Craig Stadler go after a left pin?? doubt it. If you think about the physics of hitting a golf ball dead straight, you'll realize it happens less than you think. Think about the axis of the golf ball sitting on a tee, then a club coming in contact on an arc.....see what I mean.

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I fall into the category of golfers that are obsessive about equipment, and constantly have to fight being brainwashed by the never-ending advertising announcing that this year's new driver, or new fairway wood, or new hybrid will suddenly take 10 strokes off my handicap. As I see it, part of the problem for newer players is that they don't know what is true -- no one ever educated them in the pros and cons of a 2-piece vs. a 3-piece ball, or explained to them what potential effect it might have on their game. They simply see an advertisement that says "90% of golfers who hit BigCorp XYZ's ball say they get 10 more yards on their drives," and think, "Hey, I could use 10 more yards." And the same sort of hypotheticals hold true for cavity back vs. blades, or graphite vs. steel, or shaft length, or MOI, etcetera. When learning the game many people become obsessive about diverse aspects of it -- history, equipment, golf course design, different swing techniques -- and as is the case in much of our society book learning (or magazine learning) takes the place of trial-and-error. Most of us as adults don't have time to go out to the range and hit balls every day, or go shoot 18 holes (or even 1 hole) every day, so we are looking for the quick and easy solution. If there were a pill that was guaranteed to increase your drive 10 yards, people would buy it. That said, learning about equipment specifications and shaft differences is not inherently a bad thing, since along the way you come upon little nuggets like "Just Hit It' or "The Right Sticks" which disabuse of the naive belief that your $400 driver must be the best (since it cost the most) and let you know that you would be wise to have the loft of your clubs checked since the advertised loft of your clubs may be dramatically off (b/c it was made in China by non-golfers who don't care), and your 7 iron could be 2 degrees weak and your 8 iron 2 degrees strong (i.e., the exact same loft) despite the fact that they are supposed to be 4 degrees apart.

As a final note, I do agree that people can get overboard, and it's a bit twee to hear someone go on about their new VooDoo shafts.

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This has been a very interesting read.

The commercial boom in golf has focused a lot on quick fixes, super tips, fast correction training aids, and above all ... club forgiveness. It has taken advantage of the fact that we are in essence a materialistic society. Many golfers fall prey to the idea that a golf club will correct their swing. You can buy forgiveness in a club, but that's not going to fix the fact you hit a foot behind the ball.

There is an appropriate balance, based on how much the golfer wants to dedicate themselves to really learning the game. The situations and conditions that determine this balance are as varied as the personalities of the golfers themselves.

In short, enjoy the advances in equipment, but realize that if you really want to improve, you need to learn to play the game itself.

One last thing. Basic working the ball, once you have the basics of the swing down, is NOT as hard as people make it out to be. Jack Nicklaus, in Golf My Way, was one of the first pro's to really describe a method for working the ball. Want to hit a draw or fade? line up the direction you want to start the ball, and aim the face at the target. Take your normal swing. Want to hit high or low? Move the ball forward or back in your stance. Just committing yourself to visualizing the shot and practicing the techniques, you will quickly learn how to shape shots (at least in their basic form).

Some of my best shots, especially in trouble situations, have been when I shaped the shot. Dead straight is dead hard.

Example: Playing a par 4 at Z Boaz course in Fort Worth last summer, I found myself in the trees off the left side of the fairway. My drive had hooked and left me under and behind the trees. I had no direct shot to the pin, and I had to keep the ball low. I played the ball back in the stance, aimed right, and rotated the clubface to aim at the flag. Visualized the shot, and pulled the trigger. It came off just as I planned. The ball took off on a low draw that caught the front of the green and (since the green sloped severly to the front) stuck 5 feet from the pin. It is a shot that, along with many other shaped shots, is burned into my memory.

It wasn't a one off thing either. I shaped a high draw onto the following par 3 with a 3 hybrid (big moi, but oh you can shape them) and made the center of the green as planned. Let me tell you, shaping shots is exhilirating. It's what the game of golf is meant to be: a game of imagination realized as that little white ball sails across the sky.

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You cannot blame folks for trying to buy a golf game. But, really, drivers, shafts and balls are constantly changing and there is a much bigger focus on gear than years ago. Many argue drivers are at a plateau here as I would argue for irons. Balls and shafts, I do not know enough about. I think its true the better players tend more to stick with a set of clubs because they like the feel than the higher hcps. who search for the perfect club to elimnate those swing faults.

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I dont think we reached any plateaus. 4 years ago nobody would have expected square drivers for the most part. 5 years ago, most never heard of a hybrid. Im a decent golfer, and yet I am always searching for something equipment wise that can better my game.

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Note: This thread is 4246 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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