Opponent Did Not Know Stroke and Distance Rule

[iacas]

4 hours ago, PJ Clark said:

New rule for 2020.

FWIW, the Rules of Golf changed in 2019, and this one specifically only changed if the Local Rule is in effect (which is a two-stroke penalty).

[Club Rat]

3 hours ago, Rulesman said:

If there is a rule dispute in match play the offended player must make a claim before the next hole is started. That must then be taken to the Committee on completion of the match.

Thanks for the clarification, I knew the dispute must be announced before proceeding, but wasn't sure on the process. 

[chop]

I play on a little tour thing and they are so hung up on time that they say go up and hit where it goes out but you take 2 strokes. I'd rather hit a provisional because I usually hit it down the middle. Rather hit from there than dropping into who knows what near where it went out. 

[Missouri Swede]

4 hours ago, chop said:

Rather hit from there than dropping into who knows what near where it went out. 

You’re right that you’re probably better off with a provisional.

But just to clarify: if the local rule is in effect, the drop is in the fairway.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html

Edited May 17, 2021 by Missouri Swede

[PJ Clark]

Thank you for that. No OB on our course--only red stakes, but a lot of people don't understand those rules/options either.

Cheers

[pganapathy]

On 5/13/2021 at 3:04 PM, ChetlovesMer said:

So, my question is. How do you play golf for at least 10 or 15 years (which is at least how long this guy had been playing) and not know that O.B. is stroke plus distance????? 

Let us be honest, a vast majority of golfers playing around the world have no clue about the bulk of the rules.  Very few read it or even know what rules have changed recently.  These days information is more easily available online and on youtube videos so maybe some people have a degree of knowledge.  More than anything, it depends on your club teaching its members about the rules by holding clinics.

[ChetlovesMer]

3 hours ago, pganapathy said:

Let us be honest, a vast majority of golfers playing around the world have no clue about the bulk of the rules.  

Why?
How?

Okay, I admit I don't know the subtleties of all the rules. But Red stake/white stake, that's got to be as basic as it gets. 

Seriously, I started playing golf before any of us had email. I was taught the OB rule from day one. 

White Stakes = Out of Bounds = Stroke plus distance

Red Stakes = Lateral Hazard back in the day. Today its called Penalty Area = Stroke and drop within 2 clubs of the point of entry.

There are of course subtleties and options available to the player. But I really think these are the most basic of all rules. I would say the most basic rule is "Play the ball as it lies." The second most basic rule has to be Red Stake/White Stake .... right? 

It would be like saying I've been playing chess for 15 years, I didn't know I could promote my piece if I got my pawn to the other side of the board. 

On 5/16/2021 at 8:38 PM, Missouri Swede said:

You’re right that you’re probably better off with a provisional.

But just to clarify: if the local rule is in effect, the drop is in the fairway.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html

Just to be clear. Everyone in our league was handed a rule sheet on day one, and we are given a fresh copy each week we play that says this local rule is NOT in effect for our league. It clearly says play stroke plus distance for all Out Of Bounds. If there's any uncertainty, play a provisional. Out of bounds is defined by white stakes, perimeter fences and public roads. 

[DaveP043]

On 5/16/2021 at 8:38 PM, Missouri Swede said:

But just to clarify: if the local rule is in effect, the drop is in the fairway.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html

I'm sorry, but this isn't correct.  If the Local Rule is in effect, the drop can be in a pretty large relief area, which does extend some distance into the fairway, but the relief area extends into the rough as well.   In the USGA drawings you posted, most of Area C, the Relief Area, lies in the rough.

[Brock]

Why were you taking issue with this situation and not your partner?

[mcanadiens]

On 5/20/2021 at 3:11 PM, ChetlovesMer said:

White Stakes = Out of Bounds = Stroke plus distance

Red Stakes = Lateral Hazard back in the day. Today its called Penalty Area = Stroke and drop within 2 clubs of the point of entry.

What are pink stakes?

I've seen a lot of pink stakes.

[Missouri Swede]

1 minute ago, mcanadiens said:

What are pink stakes?

I've seen a lot of pink stakes.

Medium rare?

[ChetlovesMer]

15 hours ago, Brock said:

Why were you taking issue with this situation and not your partner?

I really didn't take "issue" with anything. I was just sort of stunned. 

I assumed (clearly incorrectly) that anyone who has played golf for any length of time would know that Out of Bounds is stroke PLUS distance, and that you should replay the shot. 

Once again, because it's match play so I don't think it affected the outcome of the match. If the guy makes 10 or the guy makes 12 or more, either way, my partner would have won the hole. unless you want to make the argument that since the player didn't play "by the rules" he should have be disqualified. ... Which is probably a reasonable argument. 

Your question does make me think about things, however. So far the league has been an absolute pleasure to play. We are 5 weeks in and I've really enjoyed it. If that particular incident would have led to more confrontational situation, I'm not sure how I would have felt about it. My partner and I are currently in 19th place out of 26 teams, so clearly we aren't blazing a trail through the league. I'm not sure how much of a stickler for the rules I want to be. 

Having said that I am trying to always follow the rules to the best of my ability. Last week I hit a ball from a blind location that looked to be right at the green. We got up there and couldn't find the damned thing anywhere. The guys on the other team told me just drop one near the green and take a stroke. "We know it's around here someplace". I didn't feel right about it so I raced back and replayed the shot with the appropriate lost ball penalty. The guy I was playing against make par, so again I don't think it affected the outcome of the hole. A double bogey loses the hole, and so would have a bogey. 

I just assume everyone "wants" to play by the rules..... am I wrong? 

[Rulesman]

3 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

 

I just assume everyone "wants" to play by the rules..... am I wrong? 

Unfortunately yes.

[StuM]

4 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I just assume everyone "wants" to play by the rules..... am I wrong?

Many just want to "Play" and have no clue of the rules and no desire to learn or apply them.  Many do not know the "Real Rules", just the "Rules they think they know". 

[onthehunt526]

People who play golf semi-seriously, want to play by the rules. Even if it’s some “fun night” scramble. Those people like to play by the rules.

The USGA and R&A simplified the rules so that the recreational golfer that may play only once a week, is easily able to understand and apply the appropriate rules to their situation.

Some golfers just don’t know the rules, even with the simplified changes. For instance in @ChetlovesMer’s situation, the penalty for a ball lost or out-of-bounds is ALWAYS stroke-and-distance. 
 

I’ve played with people that don’t realize that there’s a rule for when you hit a ball in a bush. You have four options, 1) play it; or declare it unplayable. Under a penalty of one stroke, the following three options apply: 1) take relief 2 club lengths from where the ball currently lies. 2) go back as far as you want, keeping the spot the ball lies between yourself and the hole. 3) stroke-and-distance.  Those are for the general area outside bunkers or penalty areas.
 

You can have a 3 foot putt that you just barely lip out and have it roll 50 yards down a hill in front of the green. Declare the ball unplayable and putt it in with a one-stroke penalty.

Edited May 26, 2021 by onthehunt526
Grammar

[ChetlovesMer]

Clearly, I am the most naive person on planet Earth!
 

Yesterday in league it happened again! This time, it was the player I was playing against. Nice guy, had a pretty good swing. Obviously has played golf for a while. We even talked about the PGA Championship, which he watched. So, you'd think he knows the basics of golf. ... He didn't know you cannot ground your club in the bunker!!!!! His "standard" bunker shot was to push the lead edge of his sand wedge in behind the ball to make a little cut in area behind/under his ball. Then he'd take his swing and smack the club into the little cut in area. 😬

What is this world coming to!!!!! (Or to use correct English) To what is this world coming! 

 

Listen, I get it! There are golf rules that can be confusing or difficult to apply. We've had situations where the ball comes to rest on a cart path which has a bunker on one side and a red-staked penalty area on the other. Figuring out a proper drop there can be confusing. But is it too much for me to expect that if you play in a golf league you at least know the basics? 

I guess I've always just played with people who know the rules. 20 years ago, my wife and I played in a Friday-Night-Couples-League in which more beers were consumed than pars made, but still it seemed like everyone in that league knew the rules. This year's Wednesday Night men's league has been a true eye opener. It's no wonder nobody can shoot their handicap in a tournament. 

Once again, I don't want to sound like I'm bitching. Cuz, I've really been enjoying this league. I'm just totally shocked how many "golfers" don't know the rules. 

[mcanadiens]

17 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I'm just totally shocked how many "golfers" don't know the rules. 

Rules are for fools.

I'm going to go out to the course on Saturday and break every rule there is and maybe some that are not. 

 

[Rulesman]

33 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Rules are for fools.

I'm going to go out to the course on Saturday and break every rule there is and maybe some that are not. 

 

So you go up the snakes and down the ladders? Don't try that with my grandkids.