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Partners Who Cheat on Scorecards


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Anyone else play with people who obviously cheat on the scorecards? How do you address the issue? One of our weekend partners now progressed to the point of taking 15+ strokes off his score per round. Example: We count 9 strokes on a par 4. He says he shot a 6.

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Do you play for money and/or keep serious handicaps that are used in leagues/tournaments? If so there's an issue. 

One potential way to fix the issue is to have it to where everyone keeps score of someone else, and when you ask the person what they got on the hole and they say 6 when you know it was a 9, have him walk through the hole and tell you stroke by stroke how he got to 6 strokes.

Otherwise, I say let him count whatever score he wants, it doesn't really matter since it's not your score.

 

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(edited)
15 minutes ago, wakefield724 said:

Anyone else play with people who obviously cheat on the scorecards? How do you address the issue? One of our weekend partners now progressed to the point of taking 15+ strokes off his score per round. Example: We count 9 strokes on a par 4. He says he shot a 6.

You don't mark your own card. Each score is settled before you tee off on the next hole. You mark another player's card. You usually exchange cards on the first tee or as you leave the first green.

When you putt out you say "5" or whatever so your marker can hear. If the other other player says nothing, when you're marking the card you say "9 for you?" If he says, "No, 5", you discuss it and settle it on the spot. It's not hard.

 

NOTE: This is not  away to solve a problem, this is the way you score stroke play in golf. 100% of the time.

Edited by Shorty
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2 minutes ago, klineka said:

Do you play for money and/or keep serious handicaps that are used in leagues/tournaments? If so there's an issue. 

One potential way to fix the issue is to have it to where everyone keeps score of someone else, and when you ask the person what they got on the hole and they say 6 when you know it was a 9, have him walk through the hole and tell you stroke by stroke how he got to 6 strokes.

Otherwise, I say let him count whatever score he wants, it doesn't really matter since it's not your score.

 

Our group normally would not care but this guy literally rubs it in our faces if he scores lower. I am about a 15-20 lower handicapper than this guy realistically, and when he cheats on the card, he brags to everyone that he beat me. All of us have tried calling him out multiple times by counting his strokes and he either makes fun of us for taking golf seriously or tells us we are crazy and he scored lower than he did. It used to be 1 stroke here and there. Now it has turned to be 2-3 strokes on holes.

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I'm with @klineka, if you're playing for anything more than just the fun of playing, you "help" him to count each stroke he takes at the end of each hole.  And if you're just playing for fun, let him record whatever score he wants.

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2 minutes ago, wakefield724 said:

Our group normally would not care but this guy literally rubs it in our faces if he scores lower.

I wouldn't enjoy playing with someone like this, and would simply not play with them anymore if the behavior continued.

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22 minutes ago, wakefield724 said:

Anyone else play with people who obviously cheat on the scorecards? How do you address the issue? One of our weekend partners now progressed to the point of taking 15+ strokes off his score per round. Example: We count 9 strokes on a par 4. He says he shot a 6.

Of course I'm not there, so just going on what you say, but 3 (!) shots different, I almost think there must be some huge misunderstand by the person, lost ball, penalty hazard, whatever.  I mean who tries t0 shave 3 strokes on a single hole.  

I'd probably just say something like "I counted at least 9, so what do you want me to write down." and grin at him.  Or if you want to push it tell him you counted 12, and split the difference.  If nothings riding on it, who cares really.

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(edited)
10 minutes ago, wakefield724 said:

Our group normally would not care but this guy literally rubs it in our faces if he scores lower. I am about a 15-20 lower handicapper than this guy realistically, and when he cheats on the card, he brags to everyone that he beat me. All of us have tried calling him out multiple times by counting his strokes and he either makes fun of us for taking golf seriously or tells us we are crazy and he scored lower than he did. It used to be 1 stroke here and there. Now it has turned to be 2-3 strokes on holes.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't do it literally. 😉 How about next time you play you make it absolutely clear on the first tee that you are "scoring properly today". Or, when you "call him out", you do it properly. If he's a liar who tries to get one over you by lying, don't treat it like a joke.

Edited by Shorty
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Yea it is becoming to point where my group is considering not playing with him anymore. One of our life long best friends, but the amount of cheating really makes it unbearable to enjoy a stress free round. He is a consistent 100-105 golfer yet has never scored higher than a 95 the past 2 months. 

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I would never play with a person like that nor would I even have any contact with that person outside of golf.

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1 hour ago, wakefield724 said:

Anyone else play with people who obviously cheat on the scorecards? How do you address the issue? One of our weekend partners now progressed to the point of taking 15+ strokes off his score per round. Example: We count 9 strokes on a par 4. He says he shot a 6.

 

59 minutes ago, wakefield724 said:

Our group normally would not care but this guy literally rubs it in our faces if he scores lower. I am about a 15-20 lower handicapper than this guy realistically, and when he cheats on the card, he brags to everyone that he beat me. All of us have tried calling him out multiple times by counting his strokes and he either makes fun of us for taking golf seriously or tells us we are crazy and he scored lower than he did. It used to be 1 stroke here and there. Now it has turned to be 2-3 strokes on holes.

I have mentioned it many, many times, but I both my father and uncle have "creative" methods for scoring their round of golf. 
My uncle is an old vet, he is out there for socializing and the company. So he does not care about his golf game. But walking off the green he usually just says "bogie or double", when more often it is a triple. We dont play for money, and golf is a chance to spend time with him, for the time he has left.

My father also cheats like crazy. He never loses a ball (palms an extra and places it before the OB stake), if he hits a bad chip, he drops another and does it again. he counts the better shot. He does not hit from bunkers, or from behind trees. He rationalizes it with "I am not ruining my club in case there is a rock in the bunker" & " I paid to play and I am playing from behind a tree".
He keeps his own score card and any double is counted as a bogie, and any bogie is a par. He is honest about birdies. Since we dont play for money there is no point in trying to fix them.

My only frustration is the advice he doles out after I hit a bad shot. I am told "you hit it off the hossel" if it is a slice, which is not the reason for my bad shots.

Anyway, the last time I played with him I carded a 86, I glanced over at his and he wrote a 78 (6 over par). I easily out played him! But it is an ego thing.

His cheating was much more of an issue when he was in my league. since we were not in the same flight we never played. This left it up to his opponents to watch him. Our league outings were another story. I know his tricks and he screamed obscenities at me every time I called him out for his actions. So I started keeping score. He was known to walk over and change the score card. 
I am sure the league knew, as years since he has left the league, people ask if my old man is playing the league tournament, then the follow it up with "keep the eraser away from him.
I honestly dont know how he thinks he can get away with it.  When you pick your ball up and throw it from behind a tree to the fair way, the people on the green see you. The people behind you, see you!

But like I said, we dont play for money. If he tries to brag about being a better golfer I just response that anyone can be a good golfer if you write down pars!

As for your buddy, I would tell him you know he is full of it. If he wants to continue to play with you no bragging, because your not a better golfer, you are a cheater!

 

Just my $0.02!

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45 minutes ago, Big C said:

I see posts like this every so often and they always confuse me a bit. 

You say he is a lifelong best friend, so presumably you guys are all very close. You aren't playing for money, so there is nothing financial at stake - just pride, right? 

And the main reason you care about this is because he "rubs it in your faces" when he scores lower, correct? 

So in other words, a lifelong friend cheats like crazy and then has the gall to engage in good natured (I'm assuming) smack-talk when he scores lower. So..... how hard would it be for you or someone else in the group to snap back "Yeah, I could have shot an 85 too if I had ignored those penalty strokes on 3, 5, 8, 10, 15 and 17!" Why not call him out in the same good natured spirit he is giving it to you? Why does it have to be so serious? 

Either you guys aren't as close of friends as you think, or there is something more to the story then you are posting here.

 

^^^^***This

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1 hour ago, Darkfrog said:

I wouldn't enjoy playing with someone like this, and would simply not play with them anymore if the behavior continued.

Agreed.

28 minutes ago, Yukari said:

I would never play with a person like that nor would I even have any contact with that person outside of golf.

Totally agree.

Here's the thing. If this dude really is a friend. I'd pull him aside at some point, probably not during a round. And I'd tell him "Look, you are embarrassing yourself, and destroying your credibility. If you want to continue to play with us, count all your strokes. If you don't want to count all of your strokes, then don't keep a score at all... You are not fooling anyone."

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  • iacas changed the title to Partners Who Cheat on Scorecards

Wait until your friend makes a hole in one, then ask if he wants you to put him down for a zero.

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(edited)

I got a couple of friends that shave strokes.

One of them does it shamelessly, rolls his ball whether it needs it or not and will never card anything higher than an eight. There is no pretense. We have fun when we go out.

The other guy is a better player who could be really good if he played on a more regular basis. He'll give you a score and be dead serious about it. He'll talk about it and that used to frustrate the heck out of me. After years around this guy, I'm convinced that he simply forgets bad strokes and it doesn't bother me any more.  

 

Edited by mcanadiens
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Yea I think his situation is he got us all into golf and was better than us because he played years before. Now we all practice multiple times per week and take it seriously, and he is lowering his scores to keep up since he does not practice nor improve. Not only does he cheat on the scorecard, he drops balls when he loses them and says he found his, picks up putts that roll past the pin 8 feet and counts it, and admittedly told me he says things to get into our heads to mess up our round such as "You are swinging weird today" or "Why are you standing so close to the ball."

I am sure I am ranting at this point. Just honestly the most annoying person you can play a round of golf with.  

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18 minutes ago, wakefield724 said:

Yea I think his situation is he got us all into golf and was better than us because he played years before. Now we all practice multiple times per week and take it seriously, and he is lowering his scores to keep up since he does not practice nor improve. Not only does he cheat on the scorecard, he drops balls when he loses them and says he found his, picks up putts that roll past the pin 8 feet and counts it, and admittedly told me he says things to get into our heads to mess up our round such as "You are swinging weird today" or "Why are you standing so close to the ball."

I am sure I am ranting at this point. Just honestly the most annoying person you can play a round of golf with.  

You have four choices, really, in order of most aggressive to least:

  • Wager an almost uncomfortable amount of money ($250?) on a round. Or play a $100 Nassau or something. Insist on playing by the Rules of Golf.
  • Keep track of his actual score, call him on his bullshit, and put an end to it. Point out that you'll still play with him if he shoots his actual 105 because you're buddies, but he's being a dick to you guys when he claims to have beaten you.
  • Write him a letter or an email. Keep a copy of it in case he just deletes it or needs reminded of it now and then. Be polite but tell him that he is a cheat and you'd prefer it to stop, or you may want to find other people to play with or whatever.
  • Decide not to care, then stop caring. Just let him cheat.

Do whatever suits your personality and relationship the best.

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