Jump to content
IGNORED

Nearest Point of Relief


Recommended Posts

So I’m trying to find the definition but nowhere does it state if that’s measuring where the ball will be dropped or where the stance is. 
 

I always assumed that it is the ball position that is measured. So let’s say there is a cart path running down the center of the fairway directly at the flag. That would mean that if the ball in on the left ~ 2/3s of the path the ball would be dropped left for a rigthy and if it’s on the right 1/3rd on the right side. 
 

Because I have been told that you basically always look for the middle of the path and then drop on whatever side the ball is on. And for really narrow obstructions like ground under repair it would almost always be on the left side of it (or behind) and almost never on the right?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
1 minute ago, Killa said:

So I’m trying to find the definition but nowhere does it state if that’s measuring where the ball will be dropped or where the stance is. 
 

I always assumed that it is the ball position that is measured. So let’s say there is a cart path running down the center of the fairway directly at the flag. That would mean that if the ball in on the left ~ 2/3s of the path the ball would be dropped left for a rigthy and if it’s on the right 1/3rd on the right side. 
 

Because I have been told that you basically always look for the middle of the path and then drop on whatever side the ball is on. And for really narrow obstructions like ground under repair it would almost always be on the left side of it (or behind) and almost never on the right?

This is in the definitions in the Rules, and its Nearest Point of Complete Relief.  Your second paragraph is reasonably accurate, although you should generally look at COMPLETE relief to either side of the path, and determine which potential Reference point is closer to the original position of the ball..  Diagram 16.1a shows this pretty clearly.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rules-and-interpretations.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=16

The underlined portion of your post is generally wrong

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

The usga link doesn’t work for me (from mobile device and app isn’t available in our area) but my guess is that the diagram is the same as here at the randa website:

 

https://www.randa.org/Rog/2019/Rules/The-Rules-of-Golf/Rule-16

 

but I still can’t find the wording anywhere so just let me make it clear - we are determining the nearest point of complete relief by the possible ball position and not the stance right? So we determine the nearest point where we could play the ball to one side and then the nearest point of the drop to the other side and then we decide which is closer? The stance has nothing to do with nearest point other than determining where our club would rest once we stand clear of the area we are taking relief from right?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

(edited)

The nearest point of relief could have you standing in brambles or with no swing at all. Relief doesn’t imply that you have a swing at all, let alone a clear shot. 
Relief is about the ball position, nothing else.

Edited by Shorty
Link to post
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Killa said:

The usga link doesn’t work for me (from mobile device and app isn’t available in our area) but my guess is that the diagram is the same as here at the randa website:

 

https://www.randa.org/Rog/2019/Rules/The-Rules-of-Golf/Rule-16

 

but I still can’t find the wording anywhere so just let me make it clear - we are determining the nearest point of complete relief by the possible ball position and not the stance right? So we determine the nearest point where we could play the ball to one side and then the nearest point of the drop to the other side and then we decide which is closer? The stance has nothing to do with nearest point other than determining where our club would rest once we stand clear of the area we are taking relief from right?

Stance is required to be included in taking relief. 16.1a(1) specifies inclusion of intended stance, and the diagram in your link demonstrates it:

Quote

The nearest point of complete relief for B1 is P1, and is very close to the condition. For B2, the nearest point of complete relief is P2, and is farther from the condition as the stance has to be clear of the ACC.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Yes I know all of that. But we are measuring the distance between where the ball lies and the distance where the ball could be dropped nearest on either side of the hazard, right? (yes including that you mustn’t stand in the hazard after taking relief)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

(edited)
15 minutes ago, Killa said:

Yes I know all of that. But we are measuring the distance between where the ball lies and the distance where the ball could be dropped nearest on either side of the hazard, right? (yes including that you mustn’t stand in the hazard after taking relief)

What is there to be confused about? You haven't taken relief until you are taking FULL relief, meaning you aren't standing on the path (or whatever it is). So--- the closest position is the closest position. Otherwise, in the illustration below, relief would be at B2 if you were on the right hand side of the path (or whatever). Which wouldn't be relief. :-)

 

 

Screen Shot 2021-06-25 at 7.13.53 am.png

Edited by Shorty
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
59 minutes ago, Killa said:

The stance has nothing to do with nearest point other than determining where our club would rest once we stand clear of the area we are taking relief from right?

The NPCR is point for the ball which affords complete relief for STANCE and SWING from the condition from which you are taking relief, is no closer to the hole, and is nearest the original position of the ball (with a couple more restrictions).  This sounds like we agree, take.  This general description comes from the definition of Nearest Point of Complete Relief.  As others have said, this NPCR might mean you have to drop in a bush or behind a tree or on the side of a steep slope on in really tall grass, you don't get a choice, you have to use the nearest.  So make sure you know where your drop will be before you pick up your ball.

In your link, go to 16.1b, just after Reference Point, if you click on the phrase "nearest point of complete relief" you will automatically be linked with the Definition for that term.  This is a really positive thing about the Rules of Golf online, in both the R&A and the USGA versions, all defined terms referenced in the Rules are shown as hyperlinks to the actual definition.  You may want to read through the Interpretations on this Rule and Definition, they make it pretty clear.

  • Informative 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
4 hours ago, Killa said:

Because I have been told that you basically always look for the middle of the path and then drop on whatever side the ball is on.

As others have mentioned, this assumption is incorrect. The ball could be sitting on the right half of the cart path and the nearest point of complete relief be on the left.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

57 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

The NPCR is point for the ball which affords complete relief for STANCE and SWING from the condition from which you are taking relief, is no closer to the hole, and is nearest the original position of the ball (with a couple more restrictions).  This sounds like we agree, take.  This general description comes from the definition of Nearest Point of Complete Relief.  As others have said, this NPCR might mean you have to drop in a bush or behind a tree or on the side of a steep slope on in really tall grass, you don't get a choice, you have to use the nearest.  So make sure you know where your drop will be before you pick up your ball.

In your link, go to 16.1b, just after Reference Point, if you click on the phrase "nearest point of complete relief" you will automatically be linked with the Definition for that term.  This is a really positive thing about the Rules of Golf online, in both the R&A and the USGA versions, all defined terms referenced in the Rules are shown as hyperlinks to the actual definition.  You may want to read through the Interpretations on this Rule and Definition, they make it pretty clear.


Thank you - the link after 16.1b solved it for me. I understood everything about the rule (stance, bushes etc.) but I couldn’t manage to find the exact definition of NPCR and this link finally lead to the answer. And the answer I was looking for is:

“It is the estimated point where the ball would lie”

so I was correct all along but I needed to find this confirmation and was unable to do this by myself  

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • Support TST Affiliates

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    Whoop
    SuperSpeed
    FlightScope Mevo
    Use the code "iacas" for 10% off Mevo and the code "iacasjun21" for 10% off SuperSpeed.
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • I understand the need to protect what people perceive to be their freedoms, but I don't think that there is a problem in enforcing things like the wearing of seatbelts or driving whilst drunk etc. I think it SHOULD be mandated, but am realistic enough to know that any government who tried to to this would become very unpopular very quickly. At the very least I think there should be a sort of "vaccination passport" where it became pretty obvious that being unvaccinated stopped you from doing thing you like to do - like going to restaurants, sporting events or even your job, which would be an incentive for them to get vaccinated. I kind of think that the greatest freedom you can have is being pretty sure that if you do get the virus it won't kill you. And there's a simple way to achieve that freedom.
    • I hadn't heard that, but given the stupidity of people out there refusing to take it (even for FREE, no less), I'm not surprised. It'll likely be upheld too because, while the case law is old, the case mostly on point has upheld such measures.
    • There's been a lot of stories in the news lately that, because enough people have not been vaccinated (thus starving the virus), we may be headed towards mandates.  Not desirable but the 30% to 40% not vaccinated are keeping Covid-19 rolling right along and harming those who have done their part to help beat down this pandemic.
    • Mind you, @Shorty, I get the whole “it’s not for you, it’s for the protection of others” part of it. 
    • It's like living in the 1900's and 2000's. Majority of people don't have a grasp of illness and just go to a doctor. The doctor writes them a script, they go to the pharmacy and move on.  I feel like you are not taking into account timing. Is an Asymptomatic person transmissible forever? What if he caught it 3 months after COVID hit. The vaccine didn't come out for half a year or more. Would he still be putting people at risk?  Given, he should have gotten tested. He should be consulting a medical professional. Those are the two major sins.   
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. Armando Araujo
      Armando Araujo
      (46 years old)
    2. chris3putt
      chris3putt
      (54 years old)
    3. CrazyHorsePete
      CrazyHorsePete
      (34 years old)
    4. DHak20
      DHak20
      (44 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...