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Cleveland Guardians


iacas
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1 minute ago, David in FL said:

My only comment was “silliness”.

No worries.  I’ll let my buddies know that you disagree with them though and have their best interests in mind.  I’m sure they’ll appreciate it.  😂

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12 hours ago, jamo said:

I was pretty lukewarm on "Guardians" originally, but it has already grown on me. I like the logo of the G with wings over the baseball quite a bit. image.png

Yeah, when they first announced the name I was like "eh, I was kinda hoping for Spiders" but it's only been a couple of days and it's already grown on me.  This logo is cool.  And it makes me think of the movie Major League as well for some reason. (I'm guessing the reason is because it brings a baseball "to life" and it's also pointing the same way)

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2 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

No contrived team nickname that someone hasn't already taken. I think Guardians is a pretty dorky name, but what else is left.

There was a professional football team called the [New York] Guardians fairly recently.

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5 hours ago, David in FL said:

 

I have two very close friends who are 100% Native American. One a Navajo whose grandfather was a code talker in World War II, and the other a Cherokee.

Both lose their mind over stuff like this.

(snip)

But I’m the ignorant one.  
😑

 

 

Is this the adult equivalent of a 14 year old, when accused of racism or homophobia saying:

"My best friend is black and I call him a ******** all the time. He doesn't care"

or

"There's a gay guy in my class and I call him a *&&^^%^& all the time. He doesn't care.

??????

Yes, you do seem to be the ignortant one.

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7 hours ago, Shindig said:

There was a professional football team called the [New York] Guardians fairly recently.

So there was.

Wonder if Vince McMahon has been in contact with his lawyers yet.

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I'm on the side that there are some people that are overly sensitive.  We should not re write history because "it offends me".  It is history.  It has happened.  It is there for us to learn from and hopefully never make the mistake again.  Hopefully some things DO offend you.  Then you are less likely to make the same mistake.

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18 minutes ago, mattm16 said:

I'm on the side that there are some people that are overly sensitive.  We should not re write history because "it offends me".  It is history.  It has happened.  It is there for us to learn from and hopefully never make the mistake again.  Hopefully some things DO offend you.  Then you are less likely to make the same mistake.

Nobody is rewriting history. Renaming a team from an offensive name IS learning from history.

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17 minutes ago, iacas said:

Nobody is rewriting history. Renaming a team from an offensive name IS learning from history.

To me, it is absurd to think that every idea made 100 years ago is a great idea and should be maintained today. 

 

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34 minutes ago, mattm16 said:

I'm on the side that there are some people that are overly sensitive.  We should not re write history because "it offends me".  It is history.  It has happened.  It is there for us to learn from and hopefully never make the mistake again.  Hopefully some things DO offend you.  Then you are less likely to make the same mistake.

So because some wayward explorers thought they were in India, we should just call native Americans Indians even though we figured out their mistake? And then name a team after that word because it’s okay to compound mistakes? And even if the people that are being called that find it demeaning and offensive just stick with it cause it’s a pain to change names? That is just plain dumb. It’s a baseball team name, not a history lesson on the mistreatment on native Americans. 
 

Maybe we should call them the Cleveland Broken Treaties. Now that is history. 

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50 minutes ago, mattm16 said:

I'm on the side that there are some people that are overly sensitive.  We should not re write history because "it offends me".  It is history.  It has happened.  It is there for us to learn from and hopefully never make the mistake again.  Hopefully some things DO offend you.  Then you are less likely to make the same mistake.

This is a very stupid post. @boogielicious pretty much explained to you why it’s stupid.

Moreover, your logic in keeping the name, because you hope something offends you, so that you won’t make the same mistake, is some of the most far-fetched BS attempt at logic I’ve seen. It’s like you’re trying to compare the name change to Civil War museum artifacts; these are not the same thing. I’m all for preserving history, even dark and stained history, to do what you’re advocating. The museum is a place of history, and if done correctly, does not glorify nor honor past sins, but does remind us of the past wrongs and the progress we’ve made.

However, changing a ball club’s name is not the same thing. You don’t keep a factually incorrect, ignorant, and offensive and derogatory term as your ball club’s name so you can “remind everyone of past wrongs so we can avoid them.” Again, faulty logic and piss poor analogy (which you poorly drew in the first place). 

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Meh. They could have had a bit more fun with it. I would have preferred the "Cleveland River Fire" to honor when the Cuyahoga River actually caught fire. 12 times. 

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9 hours ago, Shorty said:

Is this the adult equivalent of a 14 year old, when accused of racism or homophobia saying:

"My best friend is black and I call him a ******** all the time. He doesn't care"

or

"There's a gay guy in my class and I call him a *&&^^%^& all the time. He doesn't care.

??????

Yes, you do seem to be the ignortant one.

I agree with your message, as I thought the same in response; however, I don’t agree with attacking the person, but ideas or statements that he holds are fair game in my eyes. Not trying to be a mod, so don’t “get it twisted,” as young ones say; just expressing my opinion of partial agreement. 

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1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

So because some wayward explorers thought they were in India, we should just call native Americans Indians even though we figured out their mistake? And then name a team after that word because it’s okay to compound mistakes? And even if the people that are being called that find it demeaning and offensive just stick with it cause it’s a pain to change names? That is just plain dumb. It’s a baseball team name, not a history lesson on the mistreatment on native Americans. 
 

Maybe we should call them the Cleveland Broken Treaties. Now that is history. 

I don't know when I said we shouldn't change anything.  We shouldn't re write history, that is all I said.  So, yes, make changes, but don't forget why the changes were made.   People should be able to see/read history so they can understand why the change was made.

I just don't agree with ALL the changes.  Some yes, some no.  Some I think is silly.  

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On 7/24/2021 at 11:52 AM, iacas said:

Yep, totally silly to rename a team that demeans a population of people.

And no, it doesn’t “honor” or “promote” them. Studies show this. It’s fact. It’s not universal but that’s the overall slant. And it’s not that close.

I’m sure you can find an article, but for the ones you could find I can find more and more scientifically oriented ones that say what I just said.

It’s a negative name that promotes “bad” things, overall.

Well......the intent (or what I interpret as the intent) of naming a team is to create a certain image, and for sports this often means an image which suggests bravery, a fighting spirit, strength, etc. In and of itself, I don't agree that an entire population of a certain tribe is demeaned because a sports team chose to name itself after the tribe's warriors. 

How the team chooses to depict the warriors.....that can be demeaning, as was clearly the case with the Indians' imagery of their former team namesakes. 

I still don't entirely agree that it is wrong or demeaning to name a sports team after some class of warriors. It's a game, a sport, it's marketing, etc etc. The native tribes living today often bear no resemblance whatsoever to their warrior past. 

What matters most is what the involved people think, however, and so in the end what I think doesn't really matter, as I'm not a member of an indigenous tribe. If I owned the Cleveland baseball team, I would rename it if I really believed it was hurtful or demeaning to a defined class of people. A few people feeling offended wouldn't be enough for me; you can't please everyone. 

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28 minutes ago, Big Lex said:

I don't agree that an entire population of a certain tribe is demeaned because a sports team chose to name itself after the tribe's warriors

How the team chooses to depict the warriors.....that can be demeaning, as was clearly the case with the Indians' imagery of their former team namesakes. 

I still don't entirely agree that it is wrong or demeaning to name a sports team after some class of warriors.

The problem with your argument is the fact that “Indian” is not a tribe. Rather, it’s an inaccurate and derogatory term because the folks historically designated with the moniker are not Indians. Conversely, teams named Seminoles, Braves, Blackhawks, Aztecs, Chiefs, etc. are not offensive or derogatory terms to most reasonable people, and therefore, tend to be acceptable names, unlike “Indians” or “red skins.” 

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