Theory - All Clubs Should Have the Same Lie Angle?

[billchao]

Interesting discussion. I’m not a good player by any stretch, but I do tend to pull my shorter clubs more often than my longer ones. I can’t remember the last time I pulled a well struck 4i, now that I think about it.

[Adam C]

18 minutes ago, Phil McGleno said:

A GEARS-that costs as much as a well outfitted SUV-is hardly something the average people can buy.

Dude-I am with EriK - your responses have been highly disappointing. Manufacturers have missed things before. They are not always chasing what is best but what they can sell.

This makes sense to me and I see what your friend is saying @iacas. I think the GCQuad will shoe dynamic lie angle-right?

Yes-appears so:

What We Measure | Foresight Sports

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Precision, Not Guesswork How We Measure Foresight Sports launch monitors use a combination of infrared object tracking and high-speed...

 

Not saying the "average person" is buying the GEARS set up, the average person buys access to the technology that otherwise would be unavailable to them. 

Here's an experiment. Go check the lie angle question that started this thread using GEARS, and then cross check those results with the sharpie check. See how the results compare. 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Adam C said:

Here's an experiment. Go check the lie angle question that started this thread using GEARS, and then cross check those results with the sharpie check. See how the results compare. 

OMG. Your Sharpie test isn’t anywhere near as accurate as GEARS.

And the friend has seen thousands and thousands of shots hit on GEARS.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Adam C said:

Hmmm. Actually it would be more accurate to say the FBI has been using DNA for years, but now average people can buy the same tools and use them to solve crimes at home.

I don’t see that analogy working. People, like @iacas, who use GEARS to obtain information are hardly average people in the golf world. No one suggested average people should run out and get a GEARS  system for themselves. It’s a suggestion that fitters may be interested in this information in regards to lie angles and how they’re currently measured.

[Adam C]

 

28 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t see that analogy working. People, like @iacas, who use GEARS to obtain information are hardly average people in the golf world. No one suggested average people should run out and get a GEARS  system for themselves. It’s a suggestion that fitters may be interested in this information in regards to lie angles and how they’re currently measured.

If you think this theory is true then it should be extremely easy to test. Either get on GEARS and check the lies of your longest and shortest irons, or go find a GC4 or Trackman and do the same. And if you don't have easy access to those, might I suggest the sharpie line check 😀.

[Vinsk]

52 minutes ago, Adam C said:

 

If you think this theory is true then it should be extremely easy to test. Either get on GEARS and check the lies of your longest and shortest irons, or go find a GC4 or Trackman and do the same. And if you don't have easy access to those, might I suggest the sharpie line check 😀.

Gosh Adam. I think you’re really missing the point of the OP. No one is debating the ease of access or availability of this testing except you. 

[woodzie264]

1 hour ago, Vinsk said:

Gosh Adam. I think you’re really missing the point of the OP. No one is debating the ease of access or availability of this testing except you. 

We can explain it to him, but we can’t understand it for him.  

[Vinsk]

6 hours ago, woodzie264 said:

We can explain it to him, but we can’t understand it for him.  

I think @Adam C understands it. I’m just not getting why he isn’t suggesting ideas on its data rather than it’s accessibility/convenience.

[boogielicious]

I can do some rough testing on this with my woods/hybrid. My driver lie angle is 58.5 at standard and I can bring it up to 60 with the adjustable hosel. My 3 wood and hybrid are a bit flatter at 56.5 and 58. So I can steepen them 1.5 degrees each. I do tend to push my driver and woods/hybrids. But I do need to be careful and not make judgements without data. My swing is not scratch level (at the moment 😜).

My irons are below. When I do the GEARS sessions it will be curious to see what the results are. I do tend to push draw and over draw my irons, but that is anecdotal. I would assume is has a lot to do with the shaft as well.

[iacas]

Good players tend to “learn” their clubs and put a different swing on their different clubs. That’s why they aren’t pushing all long irons and pulling all wedges. But it’s still the tendency he opines.

[phillyk]

59 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

My irons are below. When I do the GEARS sessions it will be curious to see what the results are. I do tend to push draw and over draw my irons, but that is anecdotal. I would assume is has a lot to do with the shaft as well.

 

I wouldn’t trust the websites number very accurately. Each club may be on or off by a bit. You should measure each club first if you to plan to see how/if they change. 

[Vinsk]

9 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I wouldn’t trust the websites number very accurately. Each club may be on or off by a bit. You should measure each club first if you to plan to see how/if they change. 

I’m certain with the workout I give to my hosels the lie angles are scattered all over the place.😳

[boogielicious]

15 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I wouldn’t trust the websites number very accurately. Each club may be on or off by a bit. You should measure each club first if you to plan to see how/if they change. 

I measured my irons at Golf Evolution this summer. They were very close to standard. We can do that again when I go back out for GEARS.

[billchao]

Just now, boogielicious said:

I measured my irons at Golf Evolution this summer. They were very close to standard. We can do that again when I go back out for GEARS.

Well after doing GEARS stuff  you might not want your lie angles standard 😃

[boogielicious]

1 minute ago, billchao said:

Well after doing GEARS stuff  you might not want your lie angles standard 😃

Agree. I find this very interesting. In science and engineering, more accurate measurements can lead to new theories.

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, billchao said:

Well after doing GEARS stuff  you might not want your lie angles standard 😃

Yes. And to be fair, with many amateurs starting at 5I or even 6I, the theory doesn't mean as much to them when they are not hitting 3I or 4I. Face angle matters a lot in the longer clubs because the ball travels far, and face angle matters a lot in shorter clubs because the effects of lie angle are greater due to the increased loft.

[cipher]

On 11/25/2021 at 5:03 PM, iacas said:

Again, his recommendation is not to change the length of your clubs, but just to change the lie angle: your long irons will be more toe up (so when they droop "extra" they're level) and your short irons will be more toe down (so that when they droop less they'll also be level).

In some cases(individual height dependent) would shortening a shaft on a driver or 3w shaft be the only way to really get a lie angle more upright on longer clubs, if that is what the person would need? Or am I thinking about this incorrectly?

I've noticed over the years the shorter I've made my shafts(I'm at -1" now on irons and 43.5" on my driver), and the stiffer I make the shafts, the the less I tend to miss my long irons right, the more I tend to hit them out of the center, and the less I tend to miss the driver in all directions and out on the toe.

[Zippo]

I got lost while reading about shaft droop from this 2009 abstract:

(PDF) Understanding the mechanisms of shaft deflection in the golf swing

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PDF | An understanding of shaft dynamics during the golf swing was gained through a series of theoretical simulations, using a 3D forward dynamics... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

Maybe I'll take up ping pong...