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GEARS (3D Motion Capture) Instructional Content


iacas
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5 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

Well done video and explanation of the changes the player made. It appeared to be an impactful change in the player's motion. How many repetitions did it take to go from the initial to final swing, and how did GEARS help implement the change more quickly/efficiently?

  1. About 25 or so. I think I only kept 18 swings. I delete some bad ones where he tries something but that doesn't produce a good result.
  2. It helped by measuring what he was actually doing. So, he'd try something, and see what resulted. It's far faster and effective because it's instant (so you can remember the feel and see what it produced quickly) and it's accurate (so you aren't guessing).
5 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

A short intro about the concept being covered and applicable GEARS data would help focus the viewer.

So… a 25-minute video? 😉 Heh heh.

5 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I think before and after would be more clear than E and L.

There's no text tool in Analyzr, so you get E and L because drawing out "Before" with a mouse or trackpad… would have looked worse. 😄

In Final Cut Pro, it won't matter. It'll be text, not scribbled stuff. 😄

5 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

There were a lot of GEARS lines on the avatars, but it wasn't clear if they were all relevant to the topic.

They weren't, but GEARS doesn't let you turn on only the virtual spine. I tried to call out the numbers when they were relevant.

5 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

The overlay videos at the end all looked similar to me and felt redundant, but maybe some of the finer details being presented were lost on me because I am not knowledgeable about the golf swing and all of the data points being discussed (I understand the concepts, but GEARS provides a level of granularity that can be a little overwhelming).

They were the same swings, so they should have all looked similar. 😄 The yellow was still an early swing and the blue was still a later swing.

Redundant, yes, I can see that. Thanks.

4 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

Also based on the GEARS calibration video, it seems like if the cameras move due to temperature change or garage door opening, it is simple to recalibrate, which is pretty cool considering the complexity of the system.

Yep, it doesn't take very long at all.

4 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I am interested in how GEARS initially quantified the accuracy of the system, but I figure this is proprietary information inaccessible to the general public. It's probably pretty simple to quantify accuracy of a static sensor in 3D space, but the high speed motion aspect seems like it would take considerable effort.

Like Vishal said, it's not in motion when it takes a photo (or a still frame of a video). 🙂

3 hours ago, boogielicious said:

It was good. Maybe a bit at the beginning stating what the players issue was or what they were trying to improve. I liked the cause and effect narrative too, i.e., swaying back too much causes a particular issue even though the player does get forward.

I thought I had - the player was hitting the ball fat and thin and a bit too low - but that may have been in takes 2-27 but not take 32. 😄

Thank you for the feedback.

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16 hours ago, iacas said:

So… a 25-minute video? 😉 Heh heh.

I think I saw a GEARS lesson video from AMG that was around 45 minutes long, so 25 minutes is not a bad. I assume it is quite a challenge to condense 60 minutes of lesson into a 5-12 minute summary while discussing concepts and the GEARS data. GEARS adds a layer of complexity to the discussion, if there it was just FO and DTL video, it would obviously be a lot shorter.

I was thinking more along the lines of what @boogielicious said - what issues is the player having, what swing concepts they were working on, and what data from GEARS help address it, maybe just high level thoughts, 1-2 minutes. I'm sure as you create more of this GEARS content, you'll figure out the best ways to edit and present the info. I do think the scripting will help with length - I am a terrible speaker with a tendency to ramble, so whenever I have to present anything, I always write an outline and a script to help stay on topic, stick to my time limit, and to keep myself from getting off topic.

I also forgot to mention that I like that this video shows a real amateur player making a change. While I enjoy AMG content of showing mostly pros and then describing how amateurs can implement things pros do (I know they also do pro vs ams, and have some lesson videos too), I find it more interesting to see an amateur player go through the process of making a change. It (1) shows the power of GEARS for instruction, and (2) makes it more relatable to amateur players. Not sure what the various ability levels of the players you coach on GEARS are, but it would be neat to see similar videos from high and mid cap players too, maybe even some of us TST folks who will be visiting.

16 hours ago, iacas said:

Like Vishal said, it's not in motion when it takes a photo (or a still frame of a video). 🙂

True - and considering that the GEARS cameras have high frame rate, like @GolfLug said it's the software/hardware that combines the frames from every camera into the moving avatar that is important.

21 hours ago, GolfLug said:

I could be wrong there can't be any serious IP in that.

Right - I think "proprietary" was probably the wrong word choice by me. I think customer facing is probably better phrase. I write a lot of technical documents at my job that do not have any company trade secrets or proprietary information, but they are still treated as confidential/restricted, so most customers would never see this information. I assume that GEARS did development work establishing their stated accuracy of 0.2mm statically and dynamically, but we don't get to see how they did that. Or maybe the passive motion capture technology is robust and accurate enough that the challenge of developing the system was just applying the technology to various sports motions.

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The video was great. Only thing I could suggest if we were able to see there actual swing (before and after). Would make it relatable -especially micro movements that can't be seen or even understood regardless of them being pointed out by the instructor. I doubt if you hadn't thought about it already. Anyway, my penny there. 

TBH I am excited about my numbers when I get to see them. 

4 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

Right - I think "proprietary" was probably the wrong word choice by me. I think customer facing is probably better phrase. I write a lot of technical documents at my job that do not have any company trade secrets or proprietary information, but they are still treated as confidential/restricted, so most customers would never see this information. I assume that GEARS did development work establishing their stated accuracy of 0.2mm statically and dynamically, but we don't get to see how they did that. Or maybe the passive motion capture technology is robust and accurate enough that the challenge of developing the system was just applying the technology to various sports motions.

 Yeah, even if not proprietary, I don't think they would voluntarily give out info. Not that anyone other than metrology geeks like you (and me) would even think of questioning it ( ha ha). But passive 3D measurement via camera systems has been around for at least a decade that I have dealt with so I expect that aspect (and judging by videos think) it to be absolutely cutting edge. It's just so cool. 

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This morning it occurred to me that I could have framed the video as:

  • You've heard me talk about "shifting" and "flow," but how much and how?
  • Here's someone who did things well, but over-did them and with a non-neutral tilt to boot.
4 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I think I saw a GEARS lesson video from AMG that was around 45 minutes long, so 25 minutes is not a bad.

Yes, they've done "live lesson" type videos. This wasn't that. And not to cut you off, because you're welcome to DM me and I appreciate the feedback (which I asked for), but I do want to re-focus back on GEARS videos and not commentary about one (even if it's mine).

4 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I also forgot to mention that I like that this video shows a real amateur player making a change. While I enjoy AMG content of showing mostly pros and then describing how amateurs can implement things pros do (I know they also do pro vs ams, and have some lesson videos too), I find it more interesting to see an amateur player go through the process of making a change. It (1) shows the power of GEARS for instruction, and (2) makes it more relatable to amateur players. Not sure what the various ability levels of the players you coach on GEARS are, but it would be neat to see similar videos from high and mid cap players too, maybe even some of us TST folks who will be visiting.

That's the plan, yeah.

4 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

True - and considering that the GEARS cameras have high frame rate, like @GolfLug said it's the software/hardware that combines the frames from every camera into the moving avatar that is important.

The shutter speed is what matters, and those balls are pretty freaking "lit up" against a black background, so the shutter speed is ridiculously fast.

4 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I assume that GEARS did development work establishing their stated accuracy of 0.2mm statically and dynamically, but we don't get to see how they did that. Or maybe the passive motion capture technology is robust and accurate enough that the challenge of developing the system was just applying the technology to various sports motions.

Pete, it's simpler than that: 😄

primeX13-perspective-social.png

High speed, precise tracking.
5 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

The video was great. Only thing I could suggest if we were able to see there actual swing (before and after).

Yeah, so, my main reason for not doing that is… that the avatar doesn't "out" the player. You can't see who it is. I didn't mention the golfer's name, and even considered not calling him a "junior" which I did say (on purpose) at one point. 😄

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  • 1 month later...
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Excellent video. I like the explanation at the end about targeting the hands and not necessarily the toe line if the player has an open or closed stance. I would recommend putting the video in the blog post about proper angles for folks using the Member Swings section.

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You got the common incorrect angles covered. I see people pointing from high and right all the time. This makes me reconsider when I'm like eh, a couple of inches won't make too much a difference, I'll adjust later.

Would it make sense to do one for face on? I see people pointing at the head a lot.

Gears is so nice. Shoot once, do a gazillion things with just that one segment.

Looks good to me.

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I really liked this video. I especially liked having the "wrong" angles shown and what they look like. Quite eye opening. The only bit you lost me a little at was the "here watch and see what you can see" part. I couldn't really decide what to look at and then you said look at the clubface angle and something else and then I thought oh fascinating. Certainly nothing that would make me stop watching though. 

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2 hours ago, iacas said:

What do you think of this video?

That's a great tutorial - it really shows how setting up the camera in a poor location can skew the various positions, which could cause someone to notice something that is an artifact of the view rather than something real.

 

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4 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I would recommend putting the video in the blog post about proper angles for folks using the Member Swings section.

Feedback has been good so I added it just now.

3 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I see people pointing from high and right all the time.

Right?

3 hours ago, nevets88 said:

This makes me reconsider when I'm like eh, a couple of inches won't make too much a difference, I'll adjust later.

The better the player, the more precise you have to be. Even I will be a little sloppy (it's faster) when I'm recording the swing of a 22 handicapper. 😄

3 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Would it make sense to do one for face on? I see people pointing at the head a lot.

I thought of that, and I wouldn't have even needed to make it move — just show where to shoot from — but face on is less problematic and it would have made the video longer. It's just under 5:00 now.

Face-on, there are a few things that look fairly different — like the amount of shoulder tilt if you're high or low, ball position if you're left or right — but the clubhead and lead arm at horizontals are generally pretty similar from different positions, etc. It's mostly ball position that looks different, so I noted it in the video and moved on.

3 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Gears is so nice. Shoot once, do a gazillion things with just that one segment.

Indeed.

BTW, the video and "player" I used is the "Tour Average" swing we get with the system.

3 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

I really liked this video. I especially liked having the "wrong" angles shown and what they look like. Quite eye opening.

Thank you.

3 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

The only bit you lost me a little at was the "here watch and see what you can see" part. I couldn't really decide what to look at and then you said look at the clubface angle and something else and then I thought oh fascinating. Certainly nothing that would make me stop watching though. 

Yeah, I thought by playing it back twice, with the paths traced out, it should work. Plus, it's not like people can't go back and play the videos back, or pause, and take a longer look if they want to.

2 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

That's a great tutorial - it really shows how setting up the camera in a poor location can skew the various positions, which could cause someone to notice something that is an artifact of the view rather than something real.

Definitely.

And we get a lot of poor videos on Evolvr.com. For better players, again, it can be outright dangerous to their golf games/swings to make suggestions based on a bad angle.

12 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Cool. Didn't know the exact optimal camera line. I might have been setting up high and  right. 

Probably. If you didn't know, Vishal, you haven't paid attention. 🙂

https://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/filming_your_swing

That's had the same recommendation forever, and… I added the video to it. No excuses, V! 😄

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I can imagine those not aware of camera angles working on something, they take a video from one angle, then try making a swing change and take a video from another angle and it looks different but swinging the same swing. I'm sure I've been guilty of this.

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One thing I would add to this by the way. A few driving ranges have mirrors behind the hitting bays that I've seen. I quite like them, but it's worth noting that because your eyes are not at hand height at address (one would hope at any rate), you're effectively looking at yourself from the high right angle, so if you're trying to have the club work up along the shaft line on your backswing, you'll be exaggerating it if you follow that line in the mirror (exaggerating assuming you're too far inside to start with)

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Does Gears have a feature that makes sure you’re aligned right? I’m guessing yes? I wonder if that functionality could be transferred to a smartphone app that makes sure you’ve lined up the camera right?

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22 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

One thing I would add to this by the way. A few driving ranges have mirrors behind the hitting bays that I've seen. I quite like them, but it's worth noting that because your eyes are not at hand height at address (one would hope at any rate), you're effectively looking at yourself from the high right angle…

More like a "high" angle as your eyes are often over your hands. And you can look down at your club shaft to know when it's horizontal, because unlike in a video, you're in 3D. 🙂

9 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Does Gears have a feature that makes sure you’re aligned right? I’m guessing yes? I wonder if that functionality could be transferred to a smartphone app that makes sure you’ve lined up the camera right?

You set the "ground plane" and "find the ball." The ground plane defines the direction of the two axes (and the height of the ground), and the ball defines the origin.

For example at Golf Evolution, you hit either parallel or perpendicular to the edge(s) of the mat (depending on which edge you're talking about, obviously).

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