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Has TaylorMade Hit Upon Another Winner?


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23 hours ago, The Flush said:

My son just bought an Epic Speed from Callaway Preowned for $275. It was in like new condition and appeared almost flawless when he received it. I don't know why anyone would look for a used Callaway anywhere else.

Yeah, that's off topic. 

To bring it back to the topic, there are a lot and I mean A LOT of great drivers out there. 

Which is one more reason why I give TaylorMade all the credit in the world. They have created a buzz around their driver. They have created a talking point. Whether it works better or not, we can debate all day long. But one thing that is definitely true is that people are talking about this driver. When I was at the GG, there were 3 guys being fit for this driver. And from what I could see, more people were at least going over to look at it than pretty much anything else in the store. 

Creating buzz in a world where everyone has great product is impressive. 

I don't know if it's sustainable, but ... 

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My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

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When I was working an old supervisor told me once, "Publish or perish".   It was in reference to work related information but I believe it rings true almost anywhere.   TaylorMade is getting the public's attention and for them, that's a good thing.

From the land of perpetual cloudiness.   I'm Denny

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Funny...at my Golf Galaxy there were two others getting fit while I was testing. At this particular store there are only 4 bays with Trackman (Trackmen?), one of which is the domain of the instructor and he was doing a fitting as well. There was a lot of interest and they were selling a bunch. Good for them, good for Taylor Made.

If history is any guide, there will be a Stealth 2 next year and that's the one I'll probably buy.

Driver, 3W & 4 Hybrid: 2023 :titleist: TSR3 
Irons: 2020 :titleist: T300
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  • 1 month later...

Okay, so I came across a young man hitting one of these on the range last night. 

I asked him how he liked it and of course, he said he loved it. Which I later thought was a dumb question on my part. What else is going to say? I took a look at it and he had a "real" Ventus shaft in it. At first I assumed it was one of the "Made For" Ventus shafts Taylormade Drivers tend to have now-a-days, but nope, closer inspection revealed it to be a "real" Ventus shaft. Which means the kid (or somebody else) paid a $250 adder onto his about $600 driver. So for that kind of money he'd better like it. 

Anyhow, getting to the point. He also told me it took a little while for him to hit it well. He said the carbon face has "A break in period" and after the break in period the carbon softens up and will go farther and straighter than right off the shelf. I've heard others mention a "break in period" as well for the carbon face. 

I said nothing. But I couldn't help think that "A break in period" is a terrible idea. Anyone know for sure if this is a real thing? 
How long is the "Break in period"? If it needs to break in, how do you stop it from breaking in too much? 

What I'm hoping is that this is just a sales technique. You know a happy customer leaves the store with a brand new driver and the sales guy or gal says "Oh, if you like that club now, just wait until the break in period is over then you will REALLY hit it far." Something like that. 

In my opinion, nothing other than blue jeans should have a "break in" period. That's just a tolerance controlling nightmare. 

My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

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4 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

How long is the "Break in period"? If it needs to break in, how do you stop it from breaking in too much? 

Break and carbon fiber don’t seem to be a good idea together. Seems like snake oil to me.

Scott

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1 hour ago, ChetlovesMer said:

How long is the "Break in period"? If it needs to break in, how do you stop it from breaking in too much?

Yea that sounds weird. What happens during this period until the club is “broken in” and the face gets more springy? Layers of carbon fiber on the back of the face are coming apart? Does that mean the whole face is going to fail eventually?

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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Composite baseball bats are said to have a break in period. They are supposed to get hotter once they break in and are at their hottest right before they break.  I never spent that much on a bat for my son, so I really can't say for sure.

War Eagle!

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  • 1 month later...

I hit the TM Stealth the other day. Not impressed but I must admit it wasn’t the right shaft for me. I much prefer the sound and feel with both my PXG and TSi2.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In regards to the break in period referenced earlier I've heard something similar, but more along the lines of adjustments. I've heard it didn't perform amazingly right off the bat, but tinkering with some stuff and finding the right spot for the person and now it's amazing. 

I do know that when I had my full bag fitting I tried a bunch of different drivers and the 2 I hit best were the stealth and the Callaway. I was looking more for a shaft for my current head, but if some benevolent stranger pulled up and said "it's on me, but you have to get it today" I would go with the Callaway, because I know that technology/material will last, and I'm just not sure about the carbon face 

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I hit the Stealth the other day for a while.   I currently have a SIM2, so I'm not really in the market to buy or anything.   I was just curiously.   

But, boy do I have to say, that thing feels and sounds amazing.   That said, this is one time where I think it hinders a golf shop to have Trackman bays.  Because, unfortunately, the numbers really showed no discernable difference at all from my current driver.     But, without the Trackman there telling me ball speed and distance, The feel and the *ping* when I caught it center face certainly would have led me to believe I was adding 15+ yards.  

 

:tmade:  - SIM2 - Kuro Kage silver 60 shaft
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14 hours ago, lastings said:

I hit the Stealth the other day for a while.   I currently have a SIM2, so I'm not really in the market to buy or anything.   I was just curiously.   

But, boy do I have to say, that thing feels and sounds amazing.   That said, this is one time where I think it hinders a golf shop to have Trackman bays.  Because, unfortunately, the numbers really showed no discernable difference at all from my current driver.     But, without the Trackman there telling me ball speed and distance, The feel and the *ping* when I caught it center face certainly would have led me to believe I was adding 15+ yards.  

 

I can see that. 

I haven't seen any official data, but it seems like Taylormade is selling the Hell out of these. 

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My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

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  • 6 months later...
On 3/1/2022 at 5:58 PM, xrayvizhen said:

If history is any guide, there will be a Stealth 2 next year and that's the one I'll probably buy.

Well, my man.

You were dead on correct.

I have to say I think the new one "looks" cooler than the old one. I know we've long since maximized what a driver can legally do for you. But it does look cool and as I've always said. I love shiny things. 

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My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

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My next driver will probably be a discounted PXG 😛. I really like the golf shaft in my current PXG, and they keep the same adjustment hosel.

I will try the new Taylormade driver out. I like testing equipment. 😉

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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26 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I know we've long since maximized what a driver can legally do for you. 

I don't think this is quite right, is it? I know certain aspects of the driver have been maximized for a while (like COR) but haven't things like MOI, some adjustability, etc increased legally some of which "could" make the driver perform better for you? Subject to a whole slew of other things of course. 

It's also completely possible I have fallen for all the manufacturer b.s. and nothing has actually changed.

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20 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I will try the new Taylormade driver out. I like testing equipment. 😉

Me too.

10 minutes ago, klineka said:

I don't think this is quite right, is it? I know certain aspects of the driver have been maximized for a while (like COR) but haven't things like MOI, some adjustability, etc

In terms of MOI if I understand correctly it is measured in grams per centimeter squared. Basically the resistance the club head has to twisting. I think the USGA and R&A have set the MOI limit at 5900 g/cm².  I read someplace that while club manufacturers can build clubs up to the legal limit, there's a law of diminishing returns. At some point more MOI only makes infinitely tiny differences in actual shot dispersion. The other problem is too high of MOI seems to make the testers rate the club's feel as negative. What ever that means. So, most manufactures try to hit someplace around 4200 - 4500 g/cm². That seems to be the magic number to give almost maximum MOI but without making the club feel like crap. 

To your point. I guess the goal would be to maximize the MOI (i.e. get to 5900 g/cm²) and maintain some quality of feel. Having typed that I've also been told that the difference between 5900 and 4500 g/cm² can be seen in data gathered when a robot hits a ton of shots, but its unlikely to be found in human testers. 

The engineer in me thinks all of this stuff is cool. I appreciate the challenges the engineers face. How do you make a great product a little bit greater? 

The one thing I can tell you is nearly all of my shots with my driver fall into one of two broad categories. Good enough and NOT good enough. The ones that are good enough are not likely to get a ton better with any change in my driver. The ones that are NOT good enough are not likely to get into the good enough category even with considerable help from a new driver. 

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My bag is an ever-changing combination of clubs. 

A mix I am forever tinkering with. 

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On 1/13/2023 at 9:33 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

The other problem is too high of MOI seems to make the testers rate the club's feel as negative. What ever that means.

It’s been a while since I’ve done research in this area but IIRC a lot of what golfers feel as feedback from a driver is actually the sound of the club at impact and when the club gets too far high in MOI the sound isn’t great so people are less likely to purchase it.

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Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

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On 1/13/2023 at 8:32 AM, ChetlovesMer said:

Well, my man.

You were dead on correct.

I have to say I think the new one "looks" cooler than the old one. I know we've long since maximized what a driver can legally do for you. But it does look cool and as I've always said. I love shiny things. 

I know how these guys (the golf club mfg's) think. I could have also predicted that Callaway would ditch the "Rogue" line and come out with some new, equally dumb name, and they did, (now "Paradigm") and that Titleist will probably keep on with the "TS" line for at least another year. I tested the TSR 2 and 3 a month or so ago and was extremely impressed and was almost ready to pull the trigger then but decided to wait to see what TM would come up with and now I'm dithering between the two because the Stealth 2 is truely outstanding, especially on off-center hits. 

I'm going to do more extensive Trackman testing of both the Stealth 2 and TSR-2 with various shaft/head combinations and see what's what, comparing them with what I'm getting with my M3. I may need to drop down from a stiff to a regular shaft, at this point in my life I'm right on the cusp in club-head speed, and there's lots of choices, some shafts with no up-charge, and others with very hefty premiums. Should be fun.

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Driver, 3W & 4 Hybrid: 2023 :titleist: TSR3 
Irons: 2020 :titleist: T300
Wedges: 2012 :callaway: XTour 56o & 2021 Jaws 60o

Putter: :odyssey: Marxman (Mallet) / :tmade: Juno (Blade) plus 7 or 8 others in a barrel in my basement

 

 

 

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Since there's all this discussion about velocore and stock shafts.

Julia

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