The Main Difference Between Good and Bad Golfers…

[Vinsk]

Top 100 Teacher: This is the biggest difference between good and bad golfers

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According to Top 100 Teacher Martin Chuck, the biggest difference between good and bad golfers can...

I disagree. I’ve known and played with many golfers who had consistent ( sometimes aggravating ) pre-shot routines and were all still poor golfers. Thoughts?

[chspeed]

43 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I disagree. I’ve known and played with many golfers who had consistent ( sometimes aggravating ) pre-shot routines and were all still poor golfers. Thoughts?

The biggest difference between Top 100 Teachers and bad ones, is that stupid statements by bad teachers don't end up in Golf Magazine, while...

[Piz]

I think the biggest difference is that good golfers have an understanding of what it is they are doing.  Golf requires a modicum of discipline and judgement.  It requires a modicum of skill.  Bad golfers complain, or joke, that they play poorly; but ignore the steps necessary to improve.

[mchepp]

The more I think about this, the more I question the title of the article. The idea that there could be one thing that separates good from bad is really silly. Who defines good? Is good touring pro? If so, there are about 20-30mph of swing speed that separates us plenty.

This article would be better served being titled,  "One thing that could help you play your best more often". Not exactly catchy, but would have been a more accurate title.

51 minutes ago, chspeed said:

The biggest difference between Top 100 Teachers and bad ones, is that stupid statements by bad teachers don't end up in Golf Magazine, while...

Not really fair. Martin Chuck is a pretty good teacher. We don't know what the magazine told him, or how they potentially twisted what he said.

However, rating golf coaches is blasphemy. There is absolutely no point, and it is all bullsh*t. Similar to US News and their completely bogus college rankings.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, mchepp said:

rating golf coaches is blasphemy

It's not good, no.

[boogielicious]

15 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Top 100 Teacher: This is the biggest difference between good and bad golfers

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According to Top 100 Teacher Martin Chuck, the biggest difference between good and bad golfers can...

I disagree. I’ve known and played with many golfers who had consistent ( sometimes aggravating ) pre-shot routines and were all still poor golfers. Thoughts?

I think you would be better served re-reading old Highlights magazines in your office waiting room than reading Golf magazine. Pete and RePete was my favorite.

[ChetlovesMer]

15 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Top 100 Teacher: This is the biggest difference between good and bad golfers

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According to Top 100 Teacher Martin Chuck, the biggest difference between good and bad golfers can...

I disagree. I’ve known and played with many golfers who had consistent ( sometimes aggravating ) pre-shot routines and were all still poor golfers. Thoughts?

There is an entire 222 page book dedicated to this subject.

In this book the author goes into great detail talking about how having a very consistent AND a very GOOD pre-shot routine will lead you to finding and staying in "The Zone". He puts some research in there about the pros playing their best when their pre-shot routines are very consistent, even down to the quarter of a second. He also talks about how when things went off the rails for players, their pre-shot routine would change. Sometimes taking much longer, sometimes much shorter. He never really "proves" that the lack of a consistent pre-shot routine causes the player to go off the rails. Or whether going off the rails causes the pre-shot routine to change. But I honestly don't think he tries to. He just tries to prove correlation, not causation. 

I will say that the author stresses 4 things over and over.

1. Your pre-shot routine must be consistent
2. You pre-shot routine must be a good one. (He gives lots of information about what a good pre-shot routine is. He also gives a lot of information about what makes a bad pre-shot routine.) 
3. Using your pre-shot routine before every shot will allow you to play "your best golf". What "your best golf" is will be defined by some combination of your natural abilities, the quality of your instruction, and your practice habits. 
4. Using a high-quality, consistent pre-shot routine before every shot will help you fine "The Zone" easier, and stay in "The Zone" longer. 

Overall, the book is a descent read. It's not particularly long. I've actually read it twice. 

 

 

[TourSpoon]

Anytime you use phrases like "Exhibit A" and then use Tiger to get you are going to lose credibility (at least in my eyes). I don't think that I would be fooled by anyone with a solid pre-shot routine that skanks it 7 times reaching the par 5. I think we all have seen that guy. His pre-shot routine is so US Open, wears the pro-style garb, and takes 3 hours to play 9 holes. He left out the putting pre-shot routine, which when 4 putting, is crucial to preventing the dreaded 5 putt. 

Now this critique is not really fair for the caliber of pro that was trying to get the idea across that pre-shot routines are important and I am sure someone wrote this piece for him to be relatable to the general public. But if you are a 25 capper, just get on with it please. 

[mcanadiens]

Interesting how the article emphasizes mental with this with the phrase "calms the mind and puts you in a mental state for a solid swing."  

There is probably a difference between a consistent pre-shot routine and a good pre-shot routine. Experienced bad golfers (like me) generally do the same things each time before a shot. Those things may or may not be a bigger part of our problem. It's not inconceivable to think that we are consistently making mistakes in our setup.

[ChetlovesMer]

11 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

Anytime you use phrases like "Exhibit A" and then use Tiger to get you are going to lose credibility (at least in my eyes). I don't think that I would be fooled by anyone with a solid pre-shot routine that skanks it 7 times reaching the par 5. I think we all have seen that guy. His pre-shot routine is so US Open, wears the pro-style garb, and takes 3 hours to play 9 holes. He left out the putting pre-shot routine, which when 4 putting, is crucial to preventing the dreaded 5 putt. 

Now this critique is not really fair for the caliber of pro that was trying to get the idea across that pre-shot routines are important and I am sure someone wrote this piece for him to be relatable to the general public. But if you are a 25 capper, just get on with it please. 

I find it interesting that everyone assumes that if you have a good consistent pre-shot routine, (whether you are a poor or great golfer) people assume that means you are going to play slower. Having a good consistent pre-shot routine can actually make you play faster-Sometimes a lot fast. If your routine is check the line, stand over the ball, raise your eyes to the target one more time, look at the ball and pull the trigger. Doing that every time will be a lot faster than if sometimes you stand over the ball and take a practice swing, sometimes 2, sometimes 3 or 4 or 9, then you look at the line, but then sometimes you back away to re-look at the line and then sometimes you add a waggle, other times you don't. 

Knowing what you are going to do each time will speed up play. Being consistent will speed up play. The problem isn't in having a good consistent pre-shot routine. The problem is either having a wildly variable pre-shot routine, which slows everything down, because nobody (including you) knows what you are going to do. Or having a ridiculously long pre-shot routine. Which is the same as not having a "good" pre-shot routine. 

If your pre-shot routine is 10 seconds long and very consistent. Even if you shoot 120, that's still only 20 minutes. That's not what makes players slow. Not knowing where to put their bag. Not picking up on a hole. Hunting for balls. Counting up their score standing on the green. That's the kind of stuff that makes a player slow. 

I fully agree, that some folks have a pre-shot routine which is way too long. But the discussion with them is not to go without a routine, but to learn to have a "correct" routine. My putting routine used to be much too long. Somebody told me about it and I've trimmed it down to the essentials and now I'm probably one of the fastest players on the green you will ever play with. 

[TourSpoon]

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I find it interesting that everyone assumes that if you have a good consistent pre-shot routine, (whether you are a poor or great golfer) people assume that means you are going to play slower. Having a good consistent pre-shot routine can actually make you play faster-Sometimes a lot fast. If your routine is check the line, stand over the ball, raise your eyes to the target one more time, look at the ball and pull the trigger. Doing that every time will be a lot faster than if sometimes you stand over the ball and take a practice swing, sometimes 2, sometimes 3 or 4 or 9, then you look at the line, but then sometimes you back away to re-look at the line and then sometimes you add a waggle, other times you don't. 

Knowing what you are going to do each time will speed up play. Being consistent will speed up play. The problem isn't in having a good consistent pre-shot routine. The problem is either having a wildly variable pre-shot routine, which slows everything down, because nobody (including you) knows what you are going to do. Or having a ridiculously long pre-shot routine. Which is the same as not having a "good" pre-shot routine. 

If your pre-shot routine is 10 seconds long and very consistent. Even if you shoot 120, that's still only 20 minutes. That's not what makes players slow. Not knowing where to put their bag. Not picking up on a hole. Hunting for balls. Counting up their score standing on the green. That's the kind of stuff that makes a player slow. 

I fully agree, that some folks have a pre-shot routine which is way too long. But the discussion with them is not to go without a routine, but to learn to have a "correct" routine. My putting routine used to be much too long. Somebody told me about it and I've trimmed it down to the essentials and now I'm probably one of the fastest players on the green you will ever play with. 

Good points, I was just going on the target audience that the article was written for. Using Tiger as the example just makes this a generic article targeted for the masses. The masses then relate to their PGA Tour viewing experience of what a pre-shot routine looks like and how long it should be. Talk to the caddy, reference the yardage book, throw up some grass, talk over the shot, take some practice swings, step in and go. If the article was actually written for actual golfers, he would have been specific about the process. 

If we are writing a meaningful article, I would like for it to talk about pre-shot routine as part of your responsibilities as soon as it is your turn. The yardages and wind calculations should be done before that to give you the mental picture of what you are envisioning. Then when its your turn, execute the routine in a timely manner as not to delay. If you want to look at a player to emulate, look at Matt Jones. Here is an article that I just found. It is written on the same grade level, but I love the quote, "If you play, play fast. If you play badly, play faster." 

How Matt Jones' simple mindset can help you play better golf

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PGA Tour commentator Mark Immelman is a big fan of Matt Jones' game. Here's why, and how you can lean from it for your own game.

I agree, having a plan is better than not having one. Even high caps can execute their best games and play quickly. I can play with anyone, as long as they keep pace. 

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, TourSpoon said:

The masses then relate to their PGA Tour viewing experience of what a pre-shot routine looks like and how long it should be. Talk to the caddy, reference the yardage book, throw up some grass, talk over the shot, take some practice swings, step in and go.

Where's the poll asking how long our pre-shot routines are???

In the interest of transparency mine is about 2 seconds.  I take a half swing practice swing just to make sure all the muscles and joints haven't locked up.  Then I move to the ball and hit it.  I've already checked the wind, lie, slope, yardage, etc. while others are hitting their shots, with 27 second pre-shot routines, no less.

Good thing the best 3 point shooters in the NBA don't have a pre-shot routine...

[ChetlovesMer]

2 hours ago, TourSpoon said:

I can play with anyone, as long as they keep pace. 

Ding! 

This is the correct answer. In casual rounds I'm pretty sure I don't have any idea what my playing partners shot unless we are betting on something. I can, however, tell you which ones I don't want to play with ever again because they simply take so G.D. long to hit. 

4 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Good thing the best 3 point shooters in the NBA don't have a pre-shot routine...

The best free throw shooters do. Somebody did a study on Steph Curry's pre-shot routine when shooting free throws. It probably doesn't surprise you that for all of his free throws the time it takes from the time the ref hands him the ball to the time he releases it is nearly exactly the same every single time .... He's over 93% from the line. Without a doubt he has a pre-shot routine. 

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, ChetlovesMer said:

The best free throw shooters do. Somebody did a study on Steph Curry's pre-shot routine when shooting free throws. It probably doesn't surprise you that for all of his free throws the time it takes from the time the ref hands him the ball to the time he releases it is nearly exactly the same every single time .... He's over 93% from the line. Without a doubt he has a pre-shot routine. 

Well, then the NBA needs to change the rule and allow a free-throw shooter to be guarded.  😀

Bet you if Steph shot his free throws as fast as he puts up a 3 pointer he'd have a 93.5 average from the line.  He doesn't use that same routine on the golf course, does he?

[ChetlovesMer]

43 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Well, then the NBA needs to change the rule and allow a free-throw shooter to be guarded.  😀

Bet you if Steph shot his free throws as fast as he puts up a 3 pointer he'd have a 93.5 average from the line.  He doesn't use that same routine on the golf course, does he?

That's funny. 🤣 Would it still be called a "free throw", or would it then be called a "Unfree throw"

I hear that he's a good golfer. 

[DeadMan]

That article is interesting. I'm not an expert, but I think the main difference between good and bad golfers is that good golfers tend to be closer to the hole than bad golfers after a shot.

[ChetlovesMer]

5 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

That article is interesting. I'm not an expert, but I think the main difference between good and bad golfers is that good golfers tend to be closer to the hole than bad golfers after a shot.

Nice.

 

[Shorty]

Re: pre-shot routines

Surely the point is that all good players have a consistent pre-shot routine. Not that it's the way to make you a good player.

It does not imply that anyone who has a consistent pre-shot routine is a good player.

Not everyone who smokes a packet of cigarettes a day gets smoking induced lung cancer. But all people who do contract smoking induced lung cancer are smokers.