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Playing Tees too Long for Player


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I really don't care where you play from as long as you can keep pace, but there is nothing like a total hack hitting it 150 yards dead right off the first tee to make everyone groan. Luckily, I don't walk on much and have to experience that kind of theater. It does get hard to watch when someone insists on playing the tips and can't break 100. 

I play with a men's group and a couple of us switch between the back and middle tees for variety. No one really cares because the strokes are calculated with the USGA app. We have a guy who is 85 that plays the red tees and shoots his age. I told him when he turns 90 he can hit from the 150 markers. 

Looking at the chart provided by @iacas in post #4, I can play at 6800 yards because I fit neatly into the red chart (almost identical yardages). However, I find that to be really pushing my limits of concentration and prefer 6300-6500 yards. To each his own really, some days I play at 6200 just to make it more fun on the par 5s. 

 

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I think some of it is an ego thing. If I'm going to pay $500 at Pebble Beach, I'm going to play the back tees and get my money's worth. I have actually heard that more than one time at various courses. I don't understand that. I would think it would be much more fun (as well as quicker) moving up a tee or two so you would have the same shot that Jordan Spieth had into the 9th hole instead of trying to hit a three wood on a postage stamp. I really don't want to have to hit long irons into every par 3/4 on the golf course.  I understand wanting to test your game but...

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14 hours ago, mohearn said:

I always think courses could do a better job guiding players to appropriate tees. Clipped this from course I was at, they had similar signage at the first tee where all could see. Why doesn't something like this work well? 

image.png.bd6525c8fef7c4d03e7040f2cd4f38be.png

In my opinion Handicap is one of the worst ways to determine tee boxes. I routinely play with people with better handicaps than I have who are much shorter than I am both off the tee and with irons.

One guy in particular I can think of I play with often, he is two clubs shorter than I am. To this day he talks about the round we played where I was using my 3h and he was using his driver and I was routinely 20 yards behind me off the tee. Yet he is clearly the more skilled player. And he does not enjoy rounds at 6500...just doesn't have the length. Can he play it? Absolutely. Does he enjoy it? No. For him in your example the white would be the appropriate length for him to enjoy his round at his length. And if someone is not competing in a tournament...enjoying the round really feels like the point of recreation. 

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I'm just the opposite, I hate playing the longer tees because it kills my handicap. I pretty much shoot the same scores at my home course from the whites and the blues. The whites are 69.5 120 while the blues are 71.5 125. I shoot a couple under from the whites and my differential is +0.5 but from the blues its -1.5. I shot 69 from the blues last week and now my course handicap is +3! 

I've only played Pinehurst no. 2 one time from the blues and shot 75.  I would love to get to play it one time from the US Open tees. 

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39 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

And if someone is not competing in a tournament...enjoying the round really feels like the point of recreation. 

This is my thought too. I averaged 270 off the tee last year, so based on the distance chart that Erik linked earlier in this thread, I "should" be playing around 6,800 yds, but in reality I'd say that 80%+ of my rounds are from 6,000-6,500. Most of the guys I play with hit it shorter or are much more inconsistent with their distance off the tee than I am, so combine that with the fact that I enjoy hitting wedges into greens more than mid/long irons into greens, golf is simply more fun for me in the 6,000-6,500 yardage. 

Every once in a while to mix it up I'll stretch it out into the high 6,000s and have also gone under 6,000 too and have enjoyed those rounds as well, but the 6,000-6,500 is the sweet spot for me personally to maximize my enjoyment.

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1 hour ago, darthweasel said:

In my opinion Handicap is one of the worst ways to determine tee boxes. I routinely play with people with better handicaps than I have who are much shorter than I am both off the tee and with irons.

When you say "one of the worst", it seems that you think there are multiple better ways.  In my opinion, Handicap is one of the very few things that's actually verifiable, at least for a significant number of players.  Driving distance, 5-iron distance, other distance criteria make sense too, but I'd guess that a large majority of players overestimate their distances.  In general terms, lower handicappers TEND to be longer hitters.  Consequently, I think Handicap is a good starting point for making the decision, but shouldn't be the only criteria.  As you say, each player is different, there are long-hitting 15-handicaps, short-hitting 3s, and they should each play the tees that lead to enjoyable rounds played at a reasonable pace.

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27 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

When you say "one of the worst", it seems that you think there are multiple better ways.  In my opinion, Handicap is one of the very few things that's actually verifiable, at least for a significant number of players.  Driving distance, 5-iron distance, other distance criteria make sense too, but I'd guess that a large majority of players overestimate their distances.  In general terms, lower handicappers TEND to be longer hitters.  Consequently, I think Handicap is a good starting point for making the decision, but shouldn't be the only criteria.  As you say, each player is different, there are long-hitting 15-handicaps, short-hitting 3s, and they should each play the tees that lead to enjoyable rounds played at a reasonable pace.

In addition to that, even if someone is shorter, to be a low handicap they must be pretty accurate with the clubs, too.

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2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

and they should each play the tees that lead to enjoyable rounds played at a reasonable pace.

this in particular is what i like. Could not agree more on the people not knowing their distances...I have used golfpad for a few years and have a pretty solid idea of overall, and the last few weeks, using the flightscope I have learned my carry distances well enough that when the ball plugs, it is not unusual for me to park my pushcart within a couple yards of where the ball landed.  Yet routinely when I am standing 210 off the tee having hit a decent for me 3h,  people I get matched with will be complimenting themselves on their 260 yard drive yet they are within a coupl eyards either direction from me.  As Maxwell Smart would say...missed it by that much. 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

In addition to that, even if someone is shorter, to be a low handicap they must be pretty accurate with the clubs, too.

indisputably. If I had Won's accuracy, I would have a pretty solid chance of scoring in the 70s routinely. As is, my accuracy is what I am currently working on, as those extra shots from my wayward strikes just add too much difficulty to the game. 

I love my length, but accuracy would be better and I enjoy watching the skilled players with better control of their misses and also the ability to get out of their much rarer forays into trouble. 

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8 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

When you say "one of the worst", it seems that you think there are multiple better ways.  In my opinion, Handicap is one of the very few things that's actually verifiable, at least for a significant number of players.  Driving distance, 5-iron distance, other distance criteria make sense too, but I'd guess that a large majority of players overestimate their distances.  In general terms, lower handicappers TEND to be longer hitters.  Consequently, I think Handicap is a good starting point for making the decision, but shouldn't be the only criteria.  As you say, each player is different, there are long-hitting 15-handicaps, short-hitting 3s, and they should each play the tees that lead to enjoyable rounds played at a reasonable pace.

I agree. 

"Reasonable Pace" becomes a tricky thing for each course to quantify.  If they haven't already, the USGA and/or PGA of America should put together a procedure for golf courses to determine what their "reasonable pace" should be.  Slow play sucks.  However, so does being on a course playing a game at a decent clip and having a bunch of singles and two-somes racing around the course like they are running the Indy 500 and expecting to play as fast as they want.  

Groups playing from too long of tees is just one variable in the pace of play equation.  With all else being the same, a group is going to take longer to play a round if the course is full than if it is empty.  A group is going to take longer to play a round if they are walking instead of riding a cart.  A group is going to take longer to play a round if they are playing the tips than they are if they play from a forward set of tees.  A group is going to take longer if they play as a four-some (or five-some) than if they play as a single or two-some.

Ideally, everyone will know what acceptable "pace range" is for the course at a given tee off time on a given day and expect their round to take a certain amount of time (give or take ten minutes).

John

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6 hours ago, darthweasel said:

In my opinion Handicap is one of the worst ways to determine tee boxes. I routinely play with people with better handicaps than I have who are much shorter than I am both off the tee and with irons.

One of the worst? Open to hearing other ideas.  I'm putting together a short guide for my league to help folks choose appropriately.  Got this from the PGA:

PGA of America Guidelines

Average Drive

Recommended Tees

300 yards

7,150 - 7,400 yards

275 yards

6,700 - 6,900 yards

250 yards

6,200 - 6,400 yards

225 yards

5,800 - 6,000 yards

200 yards

5,200 - 5,400 yards

175 yards

4,400 - 4,600 yards

150 yards

3,500 - 3,700 yards

125 yards

2,800 - 3,000 yards

100 yards

2,100 - 2,300 yards

 

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I hit my driver right around 270. If I really kill one I might get out around 290 (with wind, dry golf course etc.). What I like to do is play some holes from the back tees and some holes from the next tee up. This changes on a daily basis due to weather and course conditions. If I play the back tees all the way around it's just over 7000 yards (which can be miserable for me) but if I play the next set up, it's usually around 6300-6400 which is a little too short. So I try find something in between. Of course if I'm playing in the group, it could be either set of tees based on what group I'm playing with. I think you need to find your "sweet spot" for fun. I enjoy playing with the younger guys but when they are hitting their three woods and hybrids where I'm hitting my driver, it gets to be tough to be successful. No matter how accurate I am. On the other hand, the other group is not as good and not as long so it's much easier to win skins, win bets, etc. But it  does feel like cheating sometimes. Right now I'm stuck in "no-mans" land. So I usually play with the "back tee" guys and get smoked. It's not like it's financially killing me but it would be nice to not lose three out of four times. One thing interesting about playing with these two groups is that the "back tee" guys play much faster. 

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To a certain extent this depends on the length of the course.  On my home course I play the back tees.  Only one of the holes is difficult for me to reach in regulation from a distance perspective where I have to go driver and a hybrid (with both good shots) to have a chance of reaching it.  And my distance has decreased as I have aged.  Today 250 is a decent shot for me while before 270 to 280 was normal and 300 was decent.  Also, depends on the weather and ground conditions.  My home course in summer even the difficult hole is reachable (though barely) because the ball runs so much

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30 minutes ago, Bucki1968 said:

Right now I'm stuck in "no-mans" land. 

I am right there with you. My group has played the Fox Club in Palm City a few times and they do "combo" tees, which I just think is a great idea to give some alternatives to a 2 or 3 tee set up. The last time I played Larry Loretti was hanging out on the first tee. I am not sure if he was just coming over to check out our group or just to say hi, but it isn't everyday a Senior US Open champ watches you hit your tee shot. Anyway, he couldn't have been nicer and he had his ever present stogie with him. 

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On 2/15/2022 at 5:18 PM, Double Mocha Man said:

That chart looks like if you hit your drives 100 yards you're relegated to par 3 executive courses.  Or you have to quit after 6 holes.

Two guys at the range yesterday, weather reasonable (40's). Both are about 85 years old, and each hitting about 100 yds with their driver.   They play from 5800 yds and surely get their money's worth.  

I'm thinking I'm going to move up as far as possible until I can shoot par, and only then start moving back.  I think I can do it from 5800 yds. I can't from 6150. We'll see. Should help at home too, spouse only asks what I scored, not the details.  

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On 2/18/2022 at 9:01 PM, mohearn said:

Should help at home too, spouse only asks what I scored, not the details.  

Lower scores help at home when the golfer, who puts in a rough day toiling at the course, comes home in a great mood because they get to say "SEVENTY-FIVE!"  

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