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Ongoing Changes to Augusta National (11, 15, 13)


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13 hours ago, mchepp said:

I wonder how it looks from the tee. Looks awfully tight from that angle. 

Agree. It will look more of a shoot to hit through than 18. And no way will they be able to hit over the left side.

Scott

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Just gotta vent a little. 

It's very odd to me, these continuous changes. I understand it, I think I "get" what they are doing: If a par 5 hole was "intended" to play as a three shot, or at the least a drive and a long iron or FW, and players are routinely hitting 6-8 iron into it, then I guess it "makes sense" to lengthen the hole so it's harder to reach. 

I just find this kind of thinking a little rigid and bordering on silly. Nothing is frozen in time. It's a different game, in many more ways than just the distance the players hit the ball. If we shorten the ball and/or lengthen the courses such that, distance wise, golf plays EXACTLY like it did in some arbitrary past index year, say 1980, the players will STILL be way better than they were then. They have better technique, know how to swing harder but still control the ball, know their games better, know how to manage the courses better, have better conditions to play in, etc. etc. etc.

I suppose it's possible to change equipment radically, such that it's much, MUCH harder to hit the sweet spot and make it fly straight..make the clubs smaller, make the ball spin alot more. Players might have to swing easier or put an extreme priority on control, because the ball had such a tendency to curve and the clubs are so unforgiving. This would make the pro game harder, make scores go up, and make golf look more like it did in the 1960s maybe. Fine. I just think that would be a terrible idea. Even for elite players. What is the point of it? The game is still hard, even for them. The impression that the game is out of control and "too easy" is based on a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the world's golfers, and among those, a tiny subset who happen to be playing well and leading tournaments or having a good year. Alot of guys make it to the tour and fail after a couple of years. What happens to them? They don't go on shooting 63 and making golf courses irrelevant wherever they go, I don't think. 

And what is all this about what the "intent" of the designer was? I don't think The Almighty carved any tablets proscribing that Golf Shall Hath 1, 2, and 3 shot holes, in such and such proportions, etc. I think they had a big field by the ocean and started hitting the ball for fun, and it just so happened that with the tools they had, they had 1, 2, and 3 shot holes. It's what, 150 years since then? We've moved from horses to cars to electric cars, typewriters to computers...is it really so bad that on these great golf courses, the best players in the world can easily hit the 13th hole with a 3 wood and a 7 iron? 

Edited by Big Lex

JP Bouffard

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Driver: Titleist 915 D3, ACCRA Shaft 9.5*.
3W: Callaway XR,
3,4 Hybrid: Taylor Made RBZ Rescue Tour, Oban shaft.
Irons: 5-GW: Mizuno JPX800, Aerotech Steelfiber 95 shafts, S flex.
Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM5 56 degree, M grind
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4 hours ago, Big Lex said:

Just gotta vent a little. 

It's very odd to me, these continuous changes. I understand it, I think I "get" what they are doing: If a par 5 hole was "intended" to play as a three shot, or at the least a drive and a long iron or FW, and players are routinely hitting 6-8 iron into it, then I guess it "makes sense" to lengthen the hole so it's harder to reach. 

I just find this kind of thinking a little rigid and bordering on silly. Nothing is frozen in time. It's a different game, in many more ways than just the distance the players hit the ball. If we shorten the ball and/or lengthen the courses such that, distance wise, golf plays EXACTLY like it did in some arbitrary past index year, say 1980, the players will STILL be way better than they were then. They have better technique, know how to swing harder but still control the ball, know their games better, know how to manage the courses better, have better conditions to play in, etc. etc. etc.

I suppose it's possible to change equipment radically, such that it's much, MUCH harder to hit the sweet spot and make it fly straight..make the clubs smaller, make the ball spin alot more. Players might have to swing easier or put an extreme priority on control, because the ball had such a tendency to curve and the clubs are so unforgiving. This would make the pro game harder, make scores go up, and make golf look more like it did in the 1960s maybe. Fine. I just think that would be a terrible idea. Even for elite players. What is the point of it? The game is still hard, even for them. The impression that the game is out of control and "too easy" is based on a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the world's golfers, and among those, a tiny subset who happen to be playing well and leading tournaments or having a good year. Alot of guys make it to the tour and fail after a couple of years. What happens to them? They don't go on shooting 63 and making golf courses irrelevant wherever they go, I don't think. 

And what is all this about what the "intent" of the designer was? I don't think The Almighty carved any tablets proscribing that Golf Shall Hath 1, 2, and 3 shot holes, in such and such proportions, etc. I think they had a big field by the ocean and started hitting the ball for fun, and it just so happened that with the tools they had, they had 1, 2, and 3 shot holes. It's what, 150 years since then? We've moved from horses to cars to electric cars, typewriters to computers...is it really so bad that on these great golf courses, the best players in the world can easily hit the 13th hole with a 3 wood and a 7 iron? 

I agree to a point, but 13 was getting to be more like a long par 4. I think Bubba Watson hit a fade with his driver then a short iron when he won the Masters in one round. With these changes, they can still hit driver and a long iron or wood and hit the green with two good shots. That’s what a par 5 should be. 

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision -MEVO+

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boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

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3 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I agree to a point, but 13 was getting to be more like a long par 4. I think Bubba Watson hit a fade with his driver then a short iron when he won the Masters in one round. With these changes, they can still hit driver and a long iron or wood and hit the green with two good shots. That’s what a par 5 should be. 

The scoring average disagrees.

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