2023 TST Outing (OH/PA/MI/NY/WV) - Join Us May 20 @ Little Mountain!

[StuM]

On 5/16/2023 at 8:55 AM, dennyjones said:

@StuM said controlling the rain was Erik's job.  😏😜

I do not recall saying that buy maybe he is doing his job.  Latest weather is high of 60 with AM showers and partly cloudy in the afternoon.  For those few of us Michiganders that are golfing on Sunday we should have it much better with high of 67 and sunny.  

Thanks to all for getting me HCPs.  A few of you approximated and I just took what you said and if you gave a range I simply took the middle of the range.  I've recently been found guilty of overthinking things so I am just going with it as for HCPs and let the chips fall where they may.

See you all real soon.

 

[saevel25]

3 minutes ago, StuM said:

I do not recall saying that buy maybe he is doing his job.  Latest weather is high of 60 with AM showers and partly cloudy in the afternoon.  For those few of us Michiganders that are golfing on Sunday we should have it much better with high of 67 and sunny.  

Thanks to all for getting me HCPs.  A few of you approximated and I just took what you said and if you gave a range I simply took the middle of the range.  I've recently been found guilty of overthinking things so I am just going with it as for HCPs and let the chips fall where they may.

See you all real soon.

Rain looks to be early Saturday. By 1pm, we should be down to 25% for the rest of the day. 

Bundle up a bit. Going to be a high of 60-degrees for most of the day. 

[billchao]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

Since this is sort of a best ball type situation. 2 out of 4 (50% of a team) best ball is 80% handicap. 4 out 4 (using both scores) is 100%. 

(5/18)*100%+(13/18)*80% = 85% if we used ever hole.

Since we are taking best 12 out of 18, you cut that down to 57%, so let's say 60% 😉

Want that extra 10%? 😛 

I don't understand your math. USGA recommends 85% allowance for best ball stroke play 2/4, so 50% of scores at 85% handicap. We're playing 70% of scores, so shouldn't the allowance be higher? Best ball 1/4 (25% of scores) is 75% allowance, while 3/4 (75% of scores) is 100%.

[saevel25]

2 minutes ago, billchao said:

I don't understand your math. USGA recommends 85% allowance for best ball stroke play 2/4, so 50% of scores at 85% handicap. We're playing 70% of scores, so shouldn't the allowance be higher? Best ball 1/4 (25% of scores) is 75% allowance, while 3/4 (75% of scores) is 100%.

For 2 out 4 taken (per USGA) you use 80% handicap allowance. For 4 out of 4 you take 100% handicap allowance. We are only taking 50% of the teams score on par 5 and par 4's. So, 13 out of 18 holes are basically 2 out of 4 best ball. So, 80% handicap allowance. On 5 out of the 18 holes we are taking 2 out of 2 scores. Being this is 100% of the team scores taken, the handicap allowance is 100 %. 

So, if we were taking scores on all 18 holes, the interpolated handicap would be 80% x (13/18) + 100% x (5/18) = 85%. 

Since we are only taking 12 holes, I reduced that by 33%, which brought it down to 56%

If we wanted to get very detailed and weight it correctly. It would be more like 80% x (13/18) x 54% + 100% x (5/18) x 100% = 58%. This is because we must take both scores on all the par 3's. We can not avoide the par 3's. So, that is 100% handicap, weighted by the number of par 3's on the course, weighted by the percentage of the par 3's that must be taken. 

It is close to 60%. I think my math is sound here. I put the caveat that I could be getting this wrong 😛 

 

[billchao]

41 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

For 2 out 4 taken (per USGA) you use 80% handicap allowance.

85%

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Appendix C Handicap Allowances.htm

41 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

If we wanted to get very detailed and weight it correctly. It would be more like 80% x (13/18) x 54% + 100% x (5/18) x 100% = 58%. This is because we must take both scores on all the par 3's. We can not avoide the par 3's. So, that is 100% handicap, weighted by the number of par 3's on the course, weighted by the percentage of the par 3's that must be taken. 

Yea that's not quite how I see it?

We're counting all par 3 scores - 100% of scores, which should be 100% allowance.

We're counting half the par 5 scores - 50% of scores - @ 85% allowance.

There are 10 par 4s and we're counting 12/20 scores - 60% of scores, which should be more than the 85% allowance for 2/4 and less than the 100% allowance for 3/4 scores. So lets say 90%.

100% (5/18) + 85% (3/18) + 90% (10/18) = 92.95%

41 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I put the caveat that I could be getting this wrong 😛 

Funny, I say that all the time.

 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

No. 4-8 scores on par fours.

Pat fours will either be four and eight, five and seven, or six and six.

Par 4 holes you can have one player taking a score, no players taking a score, or both players taking a score. You just have to get to 12 with four coming from each player over the round.

Ok. I read it as 12 scores out of the 10 par 4s because it was on the same bullet point. It changes my math slightly, but I don't think by that much.

[iacas]

Bill, you get to choose what holes you take scores on. Those other formats you need a score in every hole. In this format, your team can not take a score on four par4s if you want.

The more of that type of stuff you add, the more it favors higher handicappers and thus the more they get reduced.

[billchao]

Ah ok I see it now. I read it as 12 per person instead of per team for some reason. Reading is hard.

No, I got that part right. Now I'm confused.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, billchao said:

Ah ok I see it now. I read it as 12 per person instead of per team for some reason. Reading is hard.

No, I got that part right. Now I'm confused.

• Five scores from both players on the par threes. That's 10 scores.
• Three scores (one per hole) from either player on the par fives. That's three scores.
• 12 total scores, in any amount per hole (0, 1, or 2) on the 10 par fours, with a minimum of four per player (so 4 and 8, 5 and 7, or 6 and 6).

[iacas]

No team complaints? Nobody swapping free agents? I mean, I didn't put them together randomly, but I don't know some of you, so… It's not like it's 100% by design or anything. I also didn't consider relative handicaps in making the teams, mostly because I don't know them (and the whole point of handicaps is to level things).

Also… everyone should probably plan to stay after to go to dinner somewhere. Maybe at the course, maybe somewhere ten minutes away.

[Jeremie Boop]

How early are most people getting there? I have about a 3 hour drive but since we are starting early afternoon I can get there a bit early to warm up and visit/get to know people before we start. I was thinking of arriving at 11-11:30ish. If there's a range close maybe meet up there so we don't jeopardize the course range? Just tossing an idea out.

[saevel25]

Tee times start at 1:00pm, I plan on getting there around Noon. Gives me a while warm up and hang out. 

[Divot Master]

2 hours ago, Jeremie Boop said:

How early are most people getting there? I have about a 3 hour drive but since we are starting early afternoon I can get there a bit early to warm up and visit/get to know people before we start. I was thinking of arriving at 11-11:30ish. If there's a range close maybe meet up there so we don't jeopardize the course range? Just tossing an idea out.

The course has a range, but it is in the ravine left of the 10th fairway, rather small, and may be irons only.

[StuM]

2 hours ago, Jeremie Boop said:

If there's a range close maybe meet up there so we don't jeopardize the course range?

Why not just use the range at the course?  I'm not sure what you mean by "don't jeopardize" it?

We expect to be at the course between 11:30 and noon depending on traffic, etc.  

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Also… everyone should probably plan to stay after to go to dinner somewhere. Maybe at the course, maybe somewhere ten minutes away.

I like the idea of a group dinner.  Their "19th Hole" menu looks a little limited.  There seems to be several placed on Rt 44 not far from the course.

[Jeremie Boop]

 

14 minutes ago, StuM said:

Why not just use the range at the course?  I'm not sure what you mean by "don't jeopardize" it?

We expect to be at the course between 11:30 and noon depending on traffic, etc.  

I like the idea of a group dinner.  Their "19th Hole" menu looks a little limited.  There seems to be several placed on Rt 44 not far from the course.

14 minutes ago, Divot Master said:

The course has a range, but it is in the ravine left of the 10th fairway, rather small, and may be irons only.

That's kind of what I was worried about. A lot of course around here either don't have a range or have a very limited area.

[iacas]

As I noted awhile ago, you do not want to use the course range. Please simply act like the course has no range. It's a terrible range, often flooded, and quite lousy.

41 minutes ago, StuM said:

I like the idea of a group dinner.  Their "19th Hole" menu looks a little limited.  There seems to be several placed on Rt 44 not far from the course.

I texted you about this earlier today (8:20am).

[Jeremie Boop]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

As I noted awhile ago, you do not want to use the course range. Please simply act like the course has no range. It's a terrible range, often flooded, and quite lousy.

 

Ah, must have been a post I missed or simply didn't remember reading. I'll look for a range close by.

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

As I noted awhile ago, you do not want to use the course range. Please simply act like the course has no range. It's a terrible range, often flooded, and quite lousy.

I texted you about this earlier today (8:20am).

It will probably be flooded. 😉

Looks like weather is being solidified for overnight, but it could be ALOT of rain. Should be out of there by 11am. 

Hopefully it is 90 degree rule and not cart path only. 

[StuM]

Please REPLY

I have lined up a place for dinner but they would like a more accurate estimate of our group size.  They do not take reservations but knowing we are a large group they will work with us.  It is Paninis Barb & Grill (menu below).  They have fairly diverse menu and are 10 minutes form the course just south of I90.  Given expectation of cool weather I requested in-door seating.  

7580 Fredle Drive, Concord OH

https://paninisgrill.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Paninis-Menu-2022-Feb.pdf

 

50 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Looks like weather is being solidified for overnight, but it could be ALOT of rain. Should be out of there by 11am. 

Hopefully it is 90 degree rule and not cart path only. 

I expect Cart Path Only.  They already have that posted on their web site for today's rounds.