Ball Lost in the Rough

[iacas]

43 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

If you hate the lost ball in the rough and don't want to make the walk of shame back to the tee box, then play with the MLR and take your two-stroke penalty.

Yeah, the two-stroke penalty has you hitting four, but you're basically guaranteed you get to be in the fairway. So it's even better than hitting a provisional which you could, you know, hit in the rough, OB, in the trees, etc.

[Ty_Webb]

Like Erik said, the rules really aren't that complicated. 99% of the time, it's put your ball down on the tee and hit it until it's in the hole. If you're on the green you can mark it and pick it up and clean it. Other than that don't touch it. Then there's what to do if you lose your ball or can't play it or hit it in a penalty area. Those are also pretty easy. The only time it gets complicated is when you do something wrong. There was that example of a pro who marked his ball, threw the ball to his caddie to clean it. The caddie missed the ball and it went into a lake beside the green. Couldn't get the ball back. Ball is not lose because it's marked. Ball can't be replaced because there's no reason to replace it within the rules, so what do you do? That's a more complicated example and the rules wind up being as long as they are because they need to pretty much cover all plausible scenarios and ensure that everyone comes to the same conclusion given the same situation. 

As to the ball lost in the rough, yes it's annoying when it happens, but you just have to suck it up and deal with it. I remember playing in a tournament at St Andrews when I was at university. It was 72 holes, with two rounds on the Old and two rounds on the New. Fourth round playing the Old and I was playing half way decent. Hit a really good drive on 16, straight down the fairway, just left of the principal's nose. Get up there and...no ball. No sign anywhere. Not even anywhere it could be - it was literally fairway or wispy rough everywhere. I don't know if a seagull pinched it or what. I started to go back to the tee and a ranger came over and asked where I was going. I said I had to go back to the tee. He said I couldn't do that because Old course and play has to keep moving. I said I was playing in a tournament and I had to. He gave me a ride back to the tee, I hit another one in the same place, he drove me back and my second ball was right where it should be in the fairway (and where the first ball should have been!). That was about 30 years ago and I'm still sour about it. Doesn't mean I think the rule should change. 

[xrayvizhen]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

If you hate the lost ball in the rough and don't want to make the walk of shame back to the tee box, then play with the MLR and take your two-stroke penalty. 

It is shocking that most of the people I encounter still do not know anything about the "new" modified local rule. What's it been now, 2-3 years?

I'm one of 50 guys in this league, which has been playing more or less consistently for over 20 years, long before I joined, and there are maybe 5 of us, at the most, who attempt to play by the official rules even though doing so puts us at a competitive disadvantage. It's a good bunch of guys though. (the assholes have been purged) and we have a good time. I would hate to leave just because of this. From what I've heard from those who play in other leagues in the area, the same issues arise all the time.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, xrayvizhen said:

It is shocking that most of the people I encounter still do not know anything about the "new" modified local rule. What's it been now, 2-3 years?

I'm one of 50 guys in this league, which has been playing more or less consistently for over 20 years, long before I joined, and there are maybe 5 of us, at the most, who attempt to play by the official rules even though doing so puts us at a competitive disadvantage. It's a good bunch of guys though. (the assholes have been purged) and we have a good time. I would hate to leave just because of this. From what I've heard from those who play in other leagues in the area, the same issues arise all the time.

I get it, it is a tough situation where you have a league that plays by non-USGA rules, and you want to keep a handicap. Either you play by USGA rules, have a higher handicap than the others, and be fine with it. You play other times, so you can get some scores for your handicap. 

I am not surprised that they do not know about the MLR. 

Just googling who many keep a USGA handicap, only 12% of golfers. Yea, I am not surprised. 

[ChetlovesMer]

12 minutes ago, xrayvizhen said:

It is shocking that most of the people I encounter still do not know anything about the "new" modified local rule. What's it been now, 2-3 years?

I believe it went into affect January 1, 2019. So, it's been about 6 plus years. 

[DaveP043]

15 hours ago, xrayvizhen said:

The Rules of Golf are not simple and whoever said they are is being disingenuous. Here are some examples:

If a ball is "not found" in a penalty area but it is known or "virtually certain" that it is in a penalty area, is it not lost therefore penalty relief may be taken, which means either drop in the penalty area, or within two club lengths or take back on the line relief (if red penalty area) and it's a one stroke penalty?? Yet, the rough is not a penalty area, so even if you know it's somewhere in the rough it's just rough and not a penalty area so it's two strokes??  Is that logical?

This one is pretty logical to me, once you accept the premise that you play your ball form the tee into the hole.  If you don't find your ball, if you don't KNOW where it is, then you play another stroke form the last place where you DID know where it was.  But the rules allow the committee (the course, or whoever organizes the competition) to define specific areas which allow a bit of a reprieve from that requirement.  If you can be pretty dang sure (virtually certain) that your ball is in one of those special areas, you get more lenient treatment.  You don't get that more lenient treatment everywhere on the course, only on those special areas defined under the rules or by the Committee.

For those who are interested in a better understanding of the rules, I highly recommend getting a copy of "The Principles behind the Rules of Golf".  It's not quite current with the rules, but its an excellent outline of much of the reasoning that has gone into them.  Its really cheap, you can get it here:

Principles Behind The Rules of Golf: Paperback (effective through 2018 to 2019)

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USGA Members, please sign in to receive your Member discount: Sign In This 72-page booklet is an update to the original version of The Principles Behind The Rules of Golf, according to the current rules book and interpretations. It...

 

[billchao]

I don’t understand why this concept is hard for people. If the ball is lost, it is lost. It doesn’t matter where they think it should be, or whether they feel like it should be lost. The bottom line is they don’t have a ball in play.

I play with some people that will just drop with one stroke (if they even take a stroke at all). Frankly, I don’t care since it’s not a competition, but if they go bragging at the bar later that they shot “85” because I will call them out on it every time.

[GolfLug]

4 minutes ago, billchao said:

I don’t understand why this concept is hard for people.

I don't think it is concept that is hard to grasp. Most people who complain find an S&D penalty too harsh for a lost ball that is presumably inbound/in a non-penalty area. 

I suspect because in other sports, when you loose a point, you loose only THAT point. While that is an apples to oranges comparison, to the casual golfer it's a bit of system shock. 

[xrayvizhen]

On 6/11/2025 at 2:51 PM, DaveP043 said:

But the rules allow the committee (the course, or whoever organizes the competition) to define specific areas which allow a bit of a reprieve from that requirement. 

This pretty much conforms to what actually happened between the time I first posted this topic until this morning, when our weekly newsletter arrived with an article that addressed the situation. The Rules Committee (I didn't know we had one) has decreed "take a drop and one stroke only if the group agrees the ball is in the rough and three minutes has passed. If you want to drop in the fairway, it's two strokes." So that's that as far as the league is concerned. 

This morning I'm playing golf at my local course, no league, just me and three other guys. No money bets, just fun. I play by the rules except for gimmies if "within the leather" and I'll post my score on GHIN.  For this kind of golf, I don't care what anyone else does. I think 3/4 of the people I play with don't even keep score and 90% don't have handicaps.

 

 

[saevel25]

On 6/11/2025 at 2:51 PM, DaveP043 said:

But the rules allow the committee (the course, or whoever organizes the competition) to define specific areas which allow a bit of a reprieve from that requirement.  If you can be pretty dang sure (virtually certain) that your ball is in one of those special areas, you get more lenient treatment.  You don't get that more lenient treatment everywhere on the course, only on those special areas defined under the rules or by the Committee.

How does this rule work in application for the golfer? 

1 hour ago, xrayvizhen said:

I play by the rules except for gimmies if "within the leather" and I'll post my score on GHIN. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

How does this rule work in application for the golfer? 

You can post your most likely score, Matt. That's fine.

[saevel25]

40 minutes ago, iacas said:

You can post your most likely score, Matt. That's fine.

OK, I didn't think gimmies were allowed in stroke play. 

[Ty_Webb]

59 minutes ago, iacas said:

You can post your most likely score, Matt. That's fine.

Right and in this instance, it's probably not unreasonable, given that the people doing this likely play matches against each other under those rules, so they should within their group have handicaps consistent with how they play. If they play anyone who's not willing to accept the "within the leather" thing, then they're only hurting themselves. IMO vanity caps are only an issue if handicap is determining eligibility for something and someone better, but with a higher index is squeezed out as a result.